Long lines for gun purchase

[warrior12]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Proverbs 25:26, "A righteous man falling down before the wicked is a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring."

You still do not get it.  It is not about the body that one has to care about for eternity , but about the soul.

Brother, I have no issues with anyone protecting their families ect, in situations that they can.  When one does deliberately do so much prep as if he can actually be the keeper of his life, then he has miss the point of the christian walk.  For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but the spiritual host of wickedness in high places.   The Lord knows all your situation and Luke 12 is about trust and readiness in serving him at all times.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/bible.show/sVerseID/25685/eVerseID/25685

Luke 17:31-33 shows that, for His disciples, His coming will result in a test of faith. They will have to be willing to leave everything behind—their homes, their possessions, even their loved ones—in order to obey the call of God. Lot's wife turned back in longing for what she had left behind, and God's judgment fell swiftly upon her. We may have to be willing even to give up our lives for salvation, because in trying to save our physical lives, we would have to renounce our beliefs.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by warrior12

[HAZARD]

James (Martyred: 44–45 A.D.)

Peter (Martyred: ca. 64 A.D.)

Andrew (Martyred: 70 A.D.)

Thomas (Martyred: 70 A.D.)

Philip (Martyred: 54 A.D.)

Matthew (Martyred: 60–70 A.D.)

Nathanael (Bartholomew) (Martyred: 70 A.D.)

James the Lesser (Martyred: 63 A.D.)

Simon the Zealot (Martyred: 74 A.D.)

Judas Thaddeus (Martyred: 72 A.D.)

Matthias (Martyred: 70 A.D.)

John (Martyred: 95 A.D.)

Paul (Martyred: 67 A.D.)

[vic66]

20 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Large bands of soldiers were not roaming Judea. The swords the disciples had were for their personal protection only, not to propogate the gospel or to attack anyone.

show one scripture of any apostle or disciple who used either sword, spear, dagger or bow and arrow (extreme force /  violence) after Pentecost out pouring acts2, after the full revelation of God progressive will had been shown to them

vengeance is mine saith the Lord I will repay.

render not evil for evil but over come evil with good.

if your enemy hunger feed him not shoot him, pray for him not slay him.

The Lord is a city of refuge in a time of trouble.

God is our hiding place, the righteous run into to him and are saved. The Lord is mighty in battle, ask Danial, David, Esther or Moses. God is a shield, a buckler, a shelter in a time of storm. Christ is well able to defend his church when and where necessary.

Jesus said all power has been given onto me.

My Father is greater than all and no man is able to pluck us out of his hands.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by vic66

[HAZARD]

17 minutes ago, vic66 said:

show one scripture of any apostle or disciple who used either sword spear, dadder or bow and arrow (extreme force /  violence) after Pentecost out pouring acts2

I never once inferred they did. All I am saying is, Christ told those who had no sword to sell their cloak and buy one. Go argue with Him, not me.

Luke 22:  36, Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[vic66]

9 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

I never once inferred they did. All I am saying is, Christ told those who had no sword to sell their cloak and buy one. Go argue with Him, not me.

Luke 22:  36, Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

to fully understand Christ statement we have to look at it in context with the other scriptures and quotes Christ and the apostles gave on use of violence . No where does Christ or the apostles in the church age encourage revenge or extreme violence for born again Christians.

there is a lot of debate concerning the scriptures you used. The things I have stated above are acknowledged foundational truths about Christ especially after reading  matthew 5-7 The sermon on the mount. Blessed are the peace makers not swordsmen or gun slingers.

Edited March 23, 2020 by vic66

[HAZARD]

4 minutes ago, vic66 said:

to fully understand Christ statement we have to look at it in context with the other scriptures and quotes Christ and the apostles gave on use of violence . No where does Christ or the apostles in the church age encourage revenge or extreme violence for born again Christians.

Jesus instructed His Disciples;

Luke 22: 35-36;

35, And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 
    36, Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 

Jesus said this because He would not be with them to supply their needs, and because the time had come when hospitality would be scarce due to the persecution of the new religion.

 

Verse 36 must be taken literally as it meant protection from wild beasts and robbers that filled Judea at that time which, if they found them unprotected, would not hesitate to take their lives.

[LadyKay]

44 minutes ago, vic66 said:

No where does Christ or the apostles in the church age encourage revenge or extreme violence for born again Christians.

 I myself do not consider protecting one's self or family as  being extreme violence or revenge.   That is just what I think. 

[vic66]

35 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

 I myself do not consider protecting one's self or family as  being extreme violence or revenge.   That is just what I think. 

God is not just able he is more than able. Question do we believe it?

2 Kings 6 (KJV)

6 And the sons of the prophets said unto Elisha, Behold now, the place where we dwell with thee is too strait for us.

² Let us go, we pray thee, unto Jordan, and take thence every man a beam, and let us make us a place there, where we may dwell. And he answered, Go ye.

³ And one said, Be content, I pray thee, and go with thy servants. And he answered, I will go.

⁴ So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood.

⁵ But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.

⁶ And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.

⁷ Therefore said he, Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.

⁸ Then the king of Syria warred against Israel, and took counsel with his servants, saying, In such and such a place shall be my camp.

⁹ And the man of God sent unto the king of Israel, saying, Beware that thou pass not such a place; for thither the Syrians are come down.

¹⁰ And the king of Israel sent to the place which the man of God told him and warned him of, and saved himself there, not once nor twice.

¹¹ Therefore the heart of the king of Syria was sore troubled for this thing; and he called his servants, and said unto them, Will ye not shew me which of us is for the king of Israel?

¹² And one of his servants said, None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that is in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber.

¹³ And he said, Go and spy where he is, that I may send and fetch him. And it was told him, saying, Behold, he is in Dothan.

¹⁴ Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.

¹⁵ And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?

¹⁶ And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

¹⁷ And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

¹⁸ And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

¹⁹ And Elisha said unto them, This is not the way, neither is this the city: follow me, and I will bring you to the man whom ye seek. But he led them to Samaria.

²⁰ And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said, Lord, open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the Lord opened their eyes, and they saw; and, behold, they were in the midst of Samaria.

²¹ And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them?

²² And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them: wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master.

²³ And he prepared great provision for them: and when they had eaten and drunk, he sent them away, and they went to their master. So the bands of Syria came no more into the land of Israel.

²⁴ And it came to pass after this, that Benhadad king of Syria gathered all his host, and went up, and besieged Samaria.

²⁵ And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.

²⁶ And as the king of Israel was passing by upon the wall, there cried a woman unto him, saying, Help, my lord, O king.

²⁷ And he said, If the Lord do not help thee, whence shall I help thee? out of the barnfloor, or out of the winepress?

²⁸ And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.

²⁹ So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.

³⁰ And it came to pass, when the king heard the words of the woman, that he rent his clothes; and he passed by upon the wall, and the people looked, and, behold, he had sackcloth within upon his flesh.

³¹ Then he said, God do so and more also to me, if the head of Elisha the son of Shaphat shall stand on him this day.

³² But Elisha sat in his house, and the elders sat with him; and the king sent a man from before him: but ere the messenger came to him, he said to the elders, See ye how this son of a murderer hath sent to take away mine head? look, when the messenger cometh, shut the door, and hold him fast at the door: is not the sound of his master's feet behind him?

³³ And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the Lord; what should I wait for the Lord any longer?

King James Version (KJV)

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, vic66 said:

to fully understand Christ statement we have to look at it in context with the other scriptures and quotes Christ and the apostles gave on use of violence . No where does Christ or the apostles in the church age encourage revenge or extreme violence for born again Christians.

there is a lot of debate concerning the scriptures you used. The things I have stated above are acknowledged foundational truths about Christ especially after reading  matthew 5-7 The sermon on the mount. Blessed are the peace makers not swordsmen or gun slingers.

A person who lives in peace, never ever hurt a soul, has a spotless police record, or they would not let me own firearms here, does not make me a swordsman or a gunslinger.

No matter what you say, come up with or say others think, believe and teach, nothing will change this statement by Jesus;

Luke 22:  36, Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Jesus never said attack anyone, kill anyone, threaten anyone. All He said was; he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.  Purely for self defence if necessary.

I can show many dozens of Scriptures where God has killed many, if not thousands of men, women and children, even commanded they be killed.

Just one example, David killed thousands' (1 Sam.27:8-11)

8, And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites,4 and the Amalekites: for those nations were of old the inhabitants of the land, as thou goest to Shur, even unto the land of Egypt. 
    9, And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel, and returned, and came to Achish. 
    10, And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the Kenites. 
    11, And David saved neither man nor woman alive, to bring tidings to Gath, saying, Lest they should tell on us, saying, So did David, and so will be his manner all the while he dwelleth in the country of the Philistines. 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by HAZARD

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, vic66 said:

God is not just able he is more than able. Question do we believe it?

I don't like the ideal that because one buys a gun with the reasoning for protection of themselves or their family, that that is a sign that they do not have faith in what God can do. Rather or not to own a gun  as a Christian is a personal choice. To judge a fellow Christians faith on this is simply wrong. I believe that God can and is able to keep me safe. But I still lock my doors at night and put on my seatbelt when I drive.  So that is what I have to say about that.   

Edited March 24, 2020 by LadyKay
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