Saints and The Faithful

[dhchristian]

12 hours ago, [orthodox] Catholic said:

and I are interested in a different notion of Saint.  That is, people who qualify according to an external standard, not people who declare themselves to be one.

Put another way, there is a standard definition of Grace, which is evidently different to yours.  According to that Grace, there is no way that I would declare myself to have received Grace, or to be a Saint as a result of Grace received.

If You look into this topic, and you coming from an orthodox background will be more receptive to this, you will find this error began in the reformation  and grew into the errors of Calvinism and has continued on into the modern protestant movements. We do not choose to be Saints, But God chooses us By divine Lot (See 2Peter 1:1). The whole epistle of 2 Peter is addressed to the saints and within it are contained things that can only be understood by those who are making their calling and election sure.

You are welcome to PM me (Private message) to discuss this further as this post will just descend into absolute chaos if the discussion is done for all to see as has happened to many a great post on this site do. I Would rather speak these things in the open for all to interact and read, but when the moderators fail to see the condescension of certain people here and stop them from doing so it is useless.

God Bless.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by George
Removed personal attack

[dhchristian]

Just now, AngelInTraining93 said:

Name a single scripture in which it is explicitly stated that saints differ from those born again. 

Read the OP of the thread.

[AngelInTraining93]

Just now, dhchristian said:

Read the OP of the thread.

Did. Where is the scripture that, again, EXPLICITLY establishes a difference?

[dhchristian]

Just now, AngelInTraining93 said:

Did. Where is the scripture that, again, EXPLICITLY establishes a difference?

Here is a link to the Strong's search for the word "saints". Take the time and read all the verses in context and you will come to the same conclusion I did. You need to begin your study with no assumptions either way, and Let the Holy Ghost teach you, Pray for His Guidance and understanding. Notice the definition of a saint in the Hebrew and the Greek, Notice how the Hebrews viewed Saints in the Old Testament and how this carried over into the New Testament as they were Hebrews. When You actually do the research yourself and the Holy Ghost teaches you, tell us what you find out. If You have bias one way or the other you will not learn the truth. 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=saints&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

God Bless you in your search for the Truth.

[AngelInTraining93]

5 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Here is a link to the Strong's search for the word "saints". Take the time and read all the verses in context and you will come to the same conclusion I did. You need to begin your study with no assumptions either way, and Let the Holy Ghost teach you, Pray for His Guidance and understanding. Notice the definition of a saint in the Hebrew and the Greek, Notice how the Hebrews viewed Saints in the Old Testament and how this carried over into the New Testament as they were Hebrews. When You actually do the research yourself and the Holy Ghost teaches you, tell us what you find out. If You have bias one way or the other you will not learn the truth. 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=saints&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

God Bless you in your search for the Truth.

Not one verse, huh? 

[AngelInTraining93]

7 minutes ago, [orthodox] Catholic said:

 

1. If you cannot understand the meaning of AND, you cannot be helped by anything "explicit".
2. If you need something even more explicit than ordinary English grammar, there is no way that anyone can help you.  

Denial is not something that can be punctured by reason.

How about you? Why don't you recite the scripture stating a difference between saints and those born again? 

[OneLight]

From The Complete Word Dictionary

Saint G40 hagiois

Any matter of religious awe, expiation, sacrifice.  Holy, set apart, sanctified, consecrated, saint.  It has a common root, hag-, with hagnos (G53), chaste, pure.  Its fundamental idea is separation, consecration, devotion to the service of Deity, sharing on God's purity and abstaining from earth's defilement.

1. Pure, clean, ceremonially or morally clean, including the idea of deserved respect, reverence.
   1. It particularly means perfect, without blemish
   2. Metaphorically it means morally pure, upright, blameless in heart and life, virtuous, holy
      1. Generally (Mark 6:20; Romans 7:12; 1 Corinthians 7:34; Ephesians 1:4; 5:27; 1 Peter 1:16; Sept.: Lev. 11:44)
      2. Spoken of those who are purified and sanctified by the influences of the Spirit.  This is assumed of all who profess the Christian name, hence hagios, saint, hagioi, saints' Christians (Acts 9:13, 14, 32, 41; 26:10; Romans 1:7; 8:27; 1 Thessalonians 3:13).  Spoken of those who are in any way included in the Christian community (1 Corinthians 7:14).  Holy kiss means the sacred Christina kiss, the pledge of Christian affection (Romans 16:16; 1 Corinthians 16:20; 1 Corinthians 13:12).
2. Consecrated, devoted, sacred, holy, meaning set apart from common to a scared use; spoken of places, temples, cities, the priesthood, men (Matthew 4:5, 7:6, 24:15, 27:53; Acts 6:13, 7:33; Romans 11:16 of firstfruit); of a male opening the womb (Luke 2:23); of Apostles (Ephesians 3:5; of prophets (Luke 1:70; Acts 3:21; 2 Peter 1:21); of angels (Matthew 25:31).
3. Holy, hallowed, worthy of reverence and veneration:
   1. Of God (John 17:11; Revelation 4:8, 6:10; Sept.: Is. 5:16, 6:3)
   2. Of His Name (Luke 1:49; Sept.: Lev. 22:2)
   3. Of His Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18)
   4. Of holy covenant (Luke 1:72)
   5. Of the Holy Scriptures (Romans 1:2; Sept.: Danial 11:28, 30).

Hope this helps people to understand how the word saint is used in scripture.

Edited May 9, 2020 by OneLight

[dhchristian]

Just now, AngelInTraining93 said:

Not one verse, huh? 

Nope, Hundreds of verses, which you have to study to show yourself approved, as Paul speaks of. The Truth is there to be found, you just have to put the effort in to find the Truth. I gave a handful in the OP Of the 95 or so verses that use the term saints, now go and look at the context of these verses and how Israel viewed saints, (hint, not all the people were called saints, only certain called out ones,) This is called the Hebrew roots of our faith, and is simply Bible theology 101. 

Now ask yourself what if I am wrong? What does this do to the prophetic scriptures that deal with the saints as opposed to the church in Revelation and Daniel and the Olivet discourse, etc. You may see a whole new understanding being opened as the Word of God comes alive and teaches you, and convicts you, and reads you, and transform you.

You want one verse to start with, start With Hosea 11:12.... Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.

[AngelInTraining93]

1 minute ago, [orthodox] Catholic said:

Why should I.

1. Scripture is there for all who are capable to read.
2. @dhchristian has provided a link to Strong, with a list of entries, which anyone with a genuine interest can read.

Your interest is not in knowledge, which is readily serviced by the above, but in personal exchanges, ad hominem, that take up time and result in nothing.  Please forgive me for not joining you there.

"Why should I?"

You really believe God won't remember the day you denied someone knowledge of the gospel?

There is no verse of the Bible in any context confirming a difference between saints and the elect.

[dhchristian]

Just now, AngelInTraining93 said:

There is no verse of the Bible in any context confirming a difference between saints and the elect.

This is known as a preconceived bias based on the traditions and teachings of man. I Invite you instead to be a Berrean and search the scriptures, and tell you to let the Holy Ghost teach you by the study of the Word of God. My View is not derived from one verse but from the entirety of scripture. Revelation does not work on a closed mind Only One that is willing to learn. You have the Holy Ghost, do you not? He is the Spirit of Truth and he will guide you into all Truth, correct? Then why not let Him teach you instead of believing what your indoctrinization taught you, and let Him Teach you the Truth? Read 1 Cor 2:9-16.

God Bless.