Salvation...Can it be lost???

[Joy in the Journey]

Again, the only thing that makes us unique is grace.

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I have to agree with you here Super Jew. Every other religion in the world tells you what you need to do to be "saved". Only Christianity says "you can't do anything- so God in His mercy came and did it for you" (AKA - grace ).

Be blessed,

Tim

[halifaxchristian]

AMEN TIM AND SJ!!!!

[apothanein kerdos]

I posted this in another thread, but it's something Bono said that sums up what I'm talking about when I say you're taking on a belief of false religions:

The interviewer, Mr. Assayas, begins by asking Bono, Doesn't he think "appalling things" happen when people become religious? Bono counters, "It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the Universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma."

The interviewer asks, What's that? "At the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics

[Joy in the Journey]

Let me ask another question ( I hope you're not getting aggravated with me )

First you say

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I am not claiming I did a certain amount of works to get back to God.

Then you say

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My concern is only for truth, because I would not want to believe all my life everything is alright because of a false grace message, and then be a castaway in the end because I had spot on my garment. 

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That to me sounds like you are depending on your beliefs to finalize your salvation. Correct me if I'm wrong please

Tim

[apothanein kerdos]

As far as I know there are other things that make us "unique", such as the fact that ours is the only religion where God took on the form of man and died, and then 3 days later rose from the tomb. In other religions, they worship objects or mortal people that are either already dead and in the grave or one day will be. In addition, I still come back to ours is the only true and living God.

Maybe that is not "unique" enought to you. That is your opinion, but to me it doesn't make a hill of beans of difference. Simply serving the true God is all that matters to me, and the similarities or differences from false religions is irrelivant.

Nope, Babylonian religion had their god comming in human flesh, dying, and rising again. This religion also predates both Judaism and Christianity

Again, the Jews worship the same God we do, this must mean they are going to heaven, according to you.

[Joy in the Journey]

The only way I can have spot on my garment, is to deliberately violate God's laws. 

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But every sin is a deliberate transgression against God...and every one sins; so by this theory, we never can know from one minute to another if we are saved ? I believe we have assurance of pardon through Christ ( 1 John 1:9 ) don't you ?

Be blessed,

Tim

[apothanein kerdos]

As far as I know there are other things that make us "unique", such as the fact that ours is the only religion where God took on the form of man and died, and then 3 days later rose from the tomb. In other religions, they worship objects or mortal people that are either already dead and in the grave or one day will be. In addition, I still come back to ours is the only true and living God.

Maybe that is not "unique" enought to you. That is your opinion, but to me it doesn't make a hill of beans of difference. Simply serving the true God is all that matters to me, and the similarities or differences from false religions is irrelivant.

Nope, Babylonian religion had their god comming in human flesh, dying, and rising again. This religion also predates both Judaism and Christianity

Again, the Jews worship the same God we do, this must mean they are going to heaven, according to you.

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Actually, I was unaware of the Babylonian religion, but to me this issue of uniqueness is still of no consequence. To say that similarities of beliefs make all religions the same doesn't wash with me.

That would be like saying, based on your beliefs, if someone started a religion where they worshipped a certain type of tree for instance, and their doctrine was that by faith in that tree alone they were saved, and could never lose salvation, that religion would be the same as Christianity. The problem with that argument is, the tree they worship would not be god, only part of the creation.

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The stress of uniqueness of our beliefs is found in scripture (that we are not like the world) and in the early church and through out all of CHristianity. It is a vitally important thing, I think you're downplaying it because you realize that grace is really all that makes us unique

[halifaxchristian]

Eternal Security is a HUGE doctrine. It concerns the sufficiency of the cross of Christ, God's faithfulness, grace, and love, and our motivations, drive, and intentions in service to Christ. It concerns the accuser of the brethren and his attacks and methods of planting doubts in believers minds. It concerns the Christian's walk of faith, mental and spiritual and emotional stability, and peace of spirit.

God bless.

[EricH]

For one to hold to free-will on the part of man, they cannot hold to eternal security. If salvation is totally dependant on a decision man makes, then it stands to reason that if man decides at some subsequent point to recant, that they can undecide.

Otherwise, one is holding that free will applies only up to the point of salvation, then is removed subsequently.

Arminius held that people could lose their salvation

[halifaxchristian]

For one to hold to free-will on the part of man, they cannot hold to eternal security. If salvation is totally dependant on a decision man makes, then it stands to reason that if man decides at some subsequent point to recant, that they can undecide.

Otherwise, one is holding that free will applies only up to the point of salvation, then is removed subsequently.

Arminius held that people could lose their salvation

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I believe in OSAS/Eternal Security and free will. I am not a Calvinist or an Armenian. I believe that we have freewill to accept or reject Jesus Christ by faith. I believe that God knows our hearts and the Holy Ghost seals those whom have a saving faith. Once a person is redeemed by God I do not believe that spiritually they can ever reject Christ because they are a new creation. I believe that a Christian, in the weakness of his or her flesh, can and do make mistakes and fall. But a true believer will not become a Charles Templeton...so to speak.

God bless.