Salvation...Can it be lost???

[Smalcald]

The funny thing is I agree with the idea that people can lose thier faith. But I don't think that those who disagree with me are rejecting the bible, they have just come from a different tradition of bible interpretation.

[Arthur Durnan]

And so the kind "fall-away" folk don't stay awake at night wondering, ever wondering whether or not they'll "continue to be saved" overnight and/or wake up on the morrow not quite sure of whether they're "still in the fold" with Jesus' ONLY type of salvation - EVERLASTING salvation - or whether they're grievously "on the outside once again" and in dire need re another altar call. Hmm. One comes close to growing quite old very, very fast with that type of "salvation," here today, gone tomorrow. Truthfully, this particular observer possessing everlasting life thru the blood of the cross would, I think, rather die of thirst than drink from THAT cup of biblical mediocrity and, yes, ultimate damnation all over again!

Again, so what were you saved from in your "first saving," my friend? It bears repeating because the answer was not forthcoming. You were NOT saved from eternal hell because you're heading for it all over again! You were NOT saved from a life of sin because now you're "back in sin's saddle" all over again. One untoward thot would do it! You were NOT saved from appearing at the sinner's Great White Throne Judgment because now you're back on schedule for that heinous accounting where the Savior exclaims "depart from Me, ye worker of iniquity..." Ouch!

And, too, of course, Jesus the Final Judge, will have to apologize for what He did indeed say in Matthew 7:23, "I NEVER knew you," and change Holy Scripture to read thus, "I USED to know you, but I now know you no longer!" O, the absolute FOLLY of not taking Jesus Christ at His very Word and seeking to interject human works into God's full, free, wonderful & everlasting salvation, the ONLY type of salvation offered by Christ! Please, please, don't let the devil snooker you out of the Savior's once-for-all-sins on Mount Calvary! His ONE-TIME sacrifice was indeed ALL-SUFFICIENT for ALL sin (check Jude 1:) past, present & future. If you don't think so, how many of the sins were in the future when Jesus died? THEY ALL WERE!!!

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for everlasting salvation purchased at such tremendous cost!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Smalcald]

If you were really saved the devil couldn't snooker you out of anything, unless of course one could lose their salvation. But like I said, it is all semantics, if a person claims they have faith, feels they have faith, and has some sort of "salvation experience" yet falls away into continual unrepented sin which is caused by lack of belief (as all sin is), you would just claim they were never saved. They would of course disagree with you, so what difference does it make?

What did Christ mean by the thin rocky soil? Those who hear the Word and accept it gladly but have no root and belief falls away? How could it be clearer?

Now maybe those who are the thin rocky soil, or those where the weeds come AFTER they accept the Word and choke the Word out, maybe they were never really saved? Okay fine but it still comes down to semantics, it is circular.

[Pilgrim7]

This Scripture is getting clearer and clearer.

1Cor 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:

1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Real faith can never lose salvation, for real faith works the works of God. Yet faith can be lost, given up, not continued in and thus the Salvation that is brings is lost, given up and not continued in. If real faith works the works of God, then if one ceased working the works of God, His faith would then be dead, not able to bring eternal life. Such is the contention of the hated James.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Ovedya]

This Scripture is getting clearer and clearer.

1Cor 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:

1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Real faith can never lose salvation, for real faith works the works of God. Yet faith can be lost, given up, not continued in and thus the Salvation that is brings is lost, given up and not continued in. If real faith works the works of God, then if one ceased working the works of God, His faith would then be dead, not able to bring eternal life. Such is the contention of the hated James.

God Bless,

Dennis

Yet James never once used the term "salvation." Hmmm....

[Ovedya]

Well, you're arguing against Hebrews 6 and 9-10 respectively, so I can't honestly add anything more than what the Scriptures say on the matter of the eternal nature of Christ's sacrifice. The nature of the sacrifice of Christ is such that it is eternal with respect to the blood only having been shed once for all, and applied once for all, for the sins of all, and for all of eternity. Either the blood was shed once and applied once for the sins of the unbeliever and the believer, past, present and future, or it was not. Either the work of Christ in redemption was complete and absolute the first time or it was not.

As far as Satan being the literal father of the Pharisees, I think you're going to have to prove that the Lord was speaking literally and not figuratively. Nevertheless, we are all children of the devil with respect to the fact that we all have the inherited fallen nature of Adam, and this fallen nature can not be truly and completely dispensed with in this age, prior to the glorification of our bodies. It can only be, as I said above, placed under the subjegation of the renewed and consecrated mind and spirit of the believer. The fact that Christ came to return us to our true Father is also abundantly evident in the parable we've been discussing, by the way.

Of course the Pharisees could have been saved, Paul was a Pharisee, and the son of a of Pharisee (Acts 23:6; 26:5 Phil. 3:5), and yet he got saved. Paul was one who approved of the killing of Stephen, and he pursued and ravaged the church to the uttermost, yet he got saved.

I am not arguing against these scriptures. Jesus sacrifice was sufficient for all the sins anyone could ever commit, yet not all are saved. Does that mean his blood was somehow not sufficient because I believe there are unsaved people?

No, but what you are essentially saying is that it's not sufficient for those who have already gained access to the blood through faith.

Also, as I already said, if a person gets saved and doesn't go back and commit wilful, presumptuous sin after salvation, they have nothing to worry about. If they do sin we have an advocate with the father, and if we confess our sins he will forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. If God can't see our sin after salvation, why confess it? What is there to cleanse us of?

What you just described is the provision given to the believers after thier intitial regeneration. This act of confession is not the same as the initial experience of believing and confessing into the death of Christ.

Also, I know the Pharisees could have been saved, even those Jesus said had the devil for their father. Indeed, Paul had the devil for his father before his Damascus Road encounter with Christ.

Right. And....?

[Ovedya]

cardcaptor

You are digging yourself into a hole, mate.

Doesn't Mary also have the inherited sin or does that only apply to men and women don't have inherited sin?

Mary knew she was in need of a saviour. Which men and women do you know who don't have inherited sin, except Jesus Himself.

You are well out of your depth.

eric.

What do you mean that Mary was in need of a savior? Every man woman and child in the history of this planet has never been inherited sin. You can look in your bible from now until doomsday and never fin these words in the same scripture "Inherited sin" nor will you find and implication of the such.

The scripture says, "The soul that sins, it shall die", not "You will die for Adams sin".

Really? That's a new one one me. Because when I read Romans 5:12-21 it seems pretty clear that throught eh offense of one man all were constituted sinners!

[Guest shiloh357]

This Scripture is getting clearer and clearer.

1Cor 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:

1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Real faith can never lose salvation, for real faith works the works of God. Yet faith can be lost, given up, not continued in and thus the Salvation that is brings is lost, given up and not continued in. If real faith works the works of God, then if one ceased working the works of God, His faith would then be dead, not able to bring eternal life. Such is the contention of the hated James.

God Bless,

Dennis

That is not the contetion of James. James' contention is that faith without corresponding is dead, only in the sense that it is impotent or ineffective as it pertains to our ability to demonstrate an authentic Christianity. James is not talking about falling away. James' admonishment is that we who claim Christ need to make sure that our lives are in agreement with our confession. James is saying that faith, like love, is operative in nature and is not effective in word only. It is not good enough to mouth words of love. Love must be demonstrated. Likewise faith must be demonstrated. If there is nothing to demonstrate what we believe, then world has no reason to believe us, and our profession is held up to mockery and scorn.

[Ovedya]

This Scripture is getting clearer and clearer.

1Cor 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:

1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Real faith can never lose salvation, for real faith works the works of God. Yet faith can be lost, given up, not continued in and thus the Salvation that is brings is lost, given up and not continued in. If real faith works the works of God, then if one ceased working the works of God, His faith would then be dead, not able to bring eternal life. Such is the contention of the hated James.

God Bless,

Dennis

That is not the contetion of James. James' contention is that faith without corresponding is dead, only in the sense that it is impotent or ineffective as it pertains to our ability to demonstrate an authentic Christianity. James is not talking about falling away. James' admonishment is that we who claim Christ need to make sure that our lives are in agreement with our confession. James is saying that faith, like love, is operative in nature and is not effective in word only. It is not good enough to mouth words of love. Love must be demonstrated. Likewise faith must be demonstrated. If there is nothing to demonstrate what we believe, then world has no reason to believe us, and our profession is held up to mockery and scorn.

BINGO!

[Arthur Durnan]

"She loves me, She loves me not. She loves me, She loves me not." "He saved me, He saved me not. He saved me, He saved me not. He....." The "kind "fall-away" folk's gates are down, the lights are a-blinking, but their train isn't a-coming! Hey, why ya runnin' for the tall grass?

Anyways, right about now it's over to Starbucks again for a cinnamon dolce latte, a buttery sweet cinnamon blended with espresso and steamed milk. A winter delight.

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your everlasting salvation (the only kind You give) purchased at such great cost on Calvary's rugged hill!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com