Mary Was Just A Woman

[Assisi]

I understand that we can find extra-biblical writers on both sides of the issue. What I have not seen is scriptural support for the idea

[Guest LadyC]

PAX!!! horizoneast NEVER called catholics inbred, nor limited the term "inbred thinking" to catholics. see my previous post in this thread for the definition of inbred in the context he used it. you really should extend an apology to horizon for having twice made a false accusation against him.

now, forgive me for being obtuse, but where in the book of james does it say that joseph had children from a previous marriage???? this subject has come up countless times, and i and others have searched the Bible for any mention of his (Jesus's) brothers and sister being half-siblings to Jesus to no avail. in fact, this is the first time anyone, catholic or otherwise, has even suggested that there is scriptural support for that false doctrine.

furthermore, of course mary and joseph consumated their marriage. scripture specifically states that consumation was prohibited prior to the birth of Jesus, never after. besides, had mary failed to fulfill her husband physically, as God commands all wives, she would have been sinning against God.... it can't be both ways. on the one hand the RCC teaches she never sinned, and on the other the RCC teaches she never fulfilled the basic command of a wife to a husband, which is to not withhold herself sexually from him.

[Guest LadyC]

JN 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" ( Guess not.)

how does this support any of the catholic teachings/traditions surrounding mary? or the passages in job and jeremiah? i thought those passages had already been covered by someone else here. they are clearly not saying what you think they are. the other person (forget who did it already) who refuted these claims regarding the passages in job and jeremiah did a fine job. please scroll back a page or two and read again what they said.

[Assisi]

JN 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" ( Guess not.)

how does this support any of the catholic teachings/traditions surrounding mary? or the passages in job and jeremiah? i thought those passages had already been covered by someone else here. they are clearly not saying what you think they are. the other person (forget who did it already) who refuted these claims regarding the passages in job and jeremiah did a fine job. please scroll back a page or two and read again what they said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They have no objective standard for their interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. Thus, how can you say that their interpretation is any better than mine?? You can't. Not with objective certainty. Thus, they are using personal opinion -- the very thing condemned in 2 Peter 1:20-21 & 2:1-3. As i described above They do not share unity with with the Christians who came before them.

Look at the preponderance of Bibical itrepretations ending in more and more divisions in the Body of Christ who Prayed to the Father that we should have unity in everything. Many Christian churches today spend much of their resources not in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth but in fighting and canniblizing other Christian churches. To maintain their identity and show that they are distinct from other Christian churches, they emphasize their differences rather that the things they have in common.The disunity and infighting among Christians is an abuse of God

[Guest LadyC]

just because some christians in history agree that mary was not a virgin doesn't make the Bible wrong, and the Bible makes clear that mary was not exempt from the command for a husband and woman to join in flesh. her womb wasn't holy, the child she carried was Holy. and personally, i don't find any credibility to ANY of calvin's teachings, don't know enough about MLK's, and never heard of that other guy.

NIV Matthew chapter 1)

24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

or KJV

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

  25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

to "know" one another in the biblical sense is to "consummate" a marriage with sexual intercourse. there is no mistaking God's intent here... joseph was not to lay with his wife until after Christ was born, after which they were to resume normal marital relations.

They have no objective standard for their interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. Thus, how can you say that their interpretation is any better than mine?? You can't. Not with objective certainty.

yes, i can... because there IS an objective standard for interpretation... the Bible itself. and the interpretation you provided is not supported by the Bible. it is taken out of context to the rest of scripture. every doctrine should be tested against none other than the Bible itself, and only itself. it doesn't matter who is teaching the doctrine, be it the RCC, calvin, or pastor joe down the street... it HAS to line up with scripture or it is, quite simply, a false doctrine.

[Guest shiloh357]

They have no objective standard for their interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. Thus, how can you say that their interpretation is any better than mine?? You can't. Not with objective certainty. Thus, they are using personal opinion -- the very thing condemned in 2 Peter 1:20-21 & 2:1-3. As i described above They do not share unity with with the Christians who came before them.

Actually I have a very objective standard for interpretation of Scriptures. It is a set of rules called hermeneutics. It provides a means of correctly dividing Word of God by allowing the plain meaning of the Scriptures to be made evident. The purpose of hermeneutics is to let the bible speak for itself.

Your tragic handling Job and Jeremiah only shows that you are parroting what someone else has told you those verses mean.

It is amazing how far someone will go, and to what degree they will twist and contort the scriptures to support silly ideas like like dead saints interceding for us.

Look at the preponderance of Bibical itrepretations ending in more and more divisions in the Body of Christ who Prayed to the Father that we should have unity in everything. Many Christian churches today spend much of their resources not in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth but in fighting and canniblizing other Christian churches. To maintain their identity and show that they are distinct from other Christian churches, they emphasize their differences rather that the things they have in common.The disunity and infighting among Christians is an abuse of God

[Pax]

They have no objective standard for their interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. Thus, how can you say that their interpretation is any better than mine?? You can't. Not with objective certainty. Thus, they are using personal opinion -- the very thing condemned in 2 Peter 1:20-21 & 2:1-3. As i described above They do not share unity with with the Christians who came before them.

Actually I have a very objective standard for interpretation of Scriptures. It is a set of rules called hermeneutics. It provides a means of correctly dividing Word of God by allowing the plain meaning of the Scriptures to be made evident. The purpose of hermeneutics is to let the bible speak for itself.

Your tragic handling Job and Jeremiah only shows that you are parroting what someone else has told you those verses mean.

It is amazing how far someone will go, and to what degree they will twist and contort the scriptures to support silly ideas like like dead saints interceding for us.

Look at the preponderance of Bibical itrepretations ending in more and more divisions in the Body of Christ who Prayed to the Father that we should have unity in everything. Many Christian churches today spend much of their resources not in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth but in fighting and canniblizing other Christian churches. To maintain their identity and show that they are distinct from other Christian churches, they emphasize their differences rather that the things they have in common.The disunity and infighting among Christians is an abuse of God

[Guest shiloh357]

I have to laugh when you say that the Catholic Church doesn't understand Christian unity. Which Denomination do you belong to out of the 38,000 Protestant denominations out there.

Like I said, unity is not the absence of diversity. Most of the differences are minor anyway. I am Southern Baptist. There are about 30 or so different types of Baptists. The differences are usually peripheral, but most of us do not find cause to break fellowship over them.

Unity does not mean "conformity of thought."

[Assisi]

They have no objective standard for their interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. Thus, how can you say that their interpretation is any better than mine?? You can't. Not with objective certainty. Thus, they are using personal opinion -- the very thing condemned in 2 Peter 1:20-21 & 2:1-3. As i described above They do not share unity with with the Christians who came before them.

Actually I have a very objective standard for interpretation of Scriptures. It is a set of rules called hermeneutics. It provides a means of correctly dividing Word of God by allowing the plain meaning of the Scriptures to be made evident. The purpose of hermeneutics is to let the bible speak for itself.

Your tragic handling Job and Jeremiah only shows that you are parroting what someone else has told you those verses mean.

It is amazing how far someone will go, and to what degree they will twist and contort the scriptures to support silly ideas like like dead saints interceding for us.

Look at the preponderance of Bibical itrepretations ending in more and more divisions in the Body of Christ who Prayed to the Father that we should have unity in everything. Many Christian churches today spend much of their resources not in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth but in fighting and canniblizing other Christian churches. To maintain their identity and show that they are distinct from other Christian churches, they emphasize their differences rather that the things they have in common.The disunity and infighting among Christians is an abuse of God

[Assisi]

just because some christians in history agree that mary was not a virgin doesn't make the Bible wrong, and the Bible makes clear that mary was not exempt from the command for a husband and woman to join in flesh. her womb wasn't holy, the child she carried was Holy. and personally, i don't find any credibility to ANY of calvin's teachings, don't know enough about MLK's, and never heard of that other guy.

NIV Matthew chapter 1)

24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

or KJV

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: