Who are the 24 Elders in Revelation?

[JohnD]

I am with George on this subject (and most subjects as well ).

What God wants us to know, he tells us.

The day of Jesus' birth... he didn't say.

Christmas is a man made holiday.

The day of his death... he also didn't say.

Good Friday is a man made determination of

3 days 3 nights / on the 3rd day (could be Thursday or even Wednesday). 

Also the Gospel accounts place the day of his resurrection as being discovered (after the fact) on the first day of the week

while one account seems to indicate it happened on the first day of the week (with eyewitnesses). 

We are only to remember / memorialize his death till he returns (Luke 11:29 / 1 Corinthians 11:24-26) ← which is not contingent 

on a set day or date.

The things that are clear in scripture we are to know (2 Timothy 2:15).

The things that are sealed up (or unclear until unsealed) we are to leave sealed / unclear

Daniel 12:8–9 (AV)
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:13 (AV)
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by JohnD

[JohnD]

My point is beware the traditions of man.

They seem right.

They appeal to the human heart.

But the end thereof are the ways of DEATH and HELL.

Don't kid yourselves.

[JohnD]

It is enough  right now

to carry out the believer's commission...

Matthew 28:19–20 (AV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Tradition calls this the Great Commission. 

But the Great Commission is that of the Father bestowing the Messiahship upon Jesus:

"THIS is my BELOVED SON..."

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

My point is beware the traditions of man.

They seem right.

They appeal to the human heart.

But the end thereof are the ways of DEATH and HELL.

Don't kid yourselves.

Some of us log on to have edifying discussions. Opinions vary and disagreements occur, but this thread has for the most part been amiable, so I don't see the need for anyone to start bringing condemnation upon the few willing to fellowship around its subject, John. Lighten up man! 

[Eddy Crocker]

6 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 10:4

Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them.”

The seven thunders can not be interpreted because Christ told John not to write them down. But who the 24 Elders are can be interpreted if it is done correctly. 

Yes you can know what the seven thunders are by looking up what thunder is and what it’s referring to. 
I just did a study on it. Here’s some verses to look at. There’s quite a few.

Exodus 19:16 
And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

 

Jeremiah 10:11-13 

¹¹ Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

¹² He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

¹³ When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

Jeremiah 51:16

When he speaks in the thunder, the heavens roar with rain. He causes the clouds to rise over the earth. He sends the lightning with the rain and releases the wind from his storehouses.

1 Samuel 7:10

Just as Samuel was sacrificing the burnt offering, the Philistines arrived to attack Israel. But the LORD spoke with a mighty voice of thunder from heaven that day, and the Philistines were thrown into such confusion that the Israelites defeated them.

2 Samuel 22:14 

¹⁴ The Lord thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.

Job 37:4-5 

⁴ After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard.

⁵ God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.

Job 40:9

Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His?

Psalms 18:13

The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

Psalm 29:3-9 

³ The voice of the Lord is upon the waters: the God of glory thundereth: the Lord is upon many waters.

Psalms 77:18

The voice of thy thunder was in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.

Psalms 81:7

Thou calledst in trouble, and I delivered thee; I answered thee in the secret place of thunder: I proved thee at the waters of Meribah. Selah.

Psalms 104:7

At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

John 12:29-30

²⁹ The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

³⁰ Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Revelation 6:1

@missmuffetNow I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.”

Revelation 14:2

And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.

@GeorgeAll these verses prove and Show that Gods voice is like thunder. When God said let there be he thundered his voice and it was. God spoke and it was. 
 

Psalms 33:9

For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.

Its easy to see once you have done your studying to conclude that the 7 thunders in Heaven are the 7 days of creation when he spoke and said Let there be light and it was done.

This is why John was not to write of the 7 thunders because Moses already did through the creation account in Genesis.

[Dennis1209]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:50 PM, George said:

Honestly, if the Bible doesn't detail the answer, the best thing is to NOT answer ... and take it for what it is.  There are 24 elders.  Usually its situations like this in Scripture and its relationahip to prophecy that can bring some intense discussions. 

Its like the 7 thunders .... 

Good morning George,

I personally have two trains of thought on this subject, the above is one of them, and your answer may well be the right one, however. The Lord stated it for a reason, purpose and to give additional information for our benefit and understanding I assume. As you're well aware, biblical mathematics [Bible numbers] are representative and constant. The number 24, or 12 + 12, is always representative and in conjunction with governmental perfection and/or the Priesthood [an identifier]. 

Would the following scripture taken in context be applicable to the discussion?

 Proverbs 25:2 (KJV) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Based on the description of the New Jerusalem and elsewhere; with the twelve foundations representing the apostles [church], and the twelve gates representing the twelve tribes of Israel; twenty four is a significant and telling number I would surmise? 

Revelation 10:4 (KJV) And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Having an inquiring and inquisitive mind, I can't even speculate on this, and the Lord explicitly commands not to reveal what John heard. Not so with the twenty-four elders. Just my chemical / electrical thought process 

[George]

9 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Based on the description of the New Jerusalem and elsewhere; with the twelve foundations representing the apostles [church], and the twelve gates representing the twelve tribes of Israel; twenty four is a significant and telling number I would surmise? 

The problems with this this is in reality there were more than 12 tribes (there are 14 named tribes in Scripture) ... and there were more than 12 apostles. 

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, George said:

The problems with this this is in reality there were more than 12 tribes (there are 14 named tribes in Scripture) ... and there were more than 12 apostles. 

Where is it mentioned in the Bible that there were more than 12 apostles?

[RonaldBruno]

Salvation of Old Testament saints was imputed by Christ's death and resurrection. All those who lived by faith, like Abraham, were saved. They believed in and were waiting for their Messiah.

There were many kings, more bad than good and many prophets, so it would be difficult to assign 24 seats to them. Some scholars thought maybe a combination of twelve prophets (or kings) and twelve disciples might make up 24 elders. If that were so, then John, a disciple, who saw the vision of 24 elders, would have seen himself too. "Hey that looks like me _ when I was young _ huh?"

I've also heard from John MacArthur, whom I have the utmost respect for, that they represent the Church. ???

Well, one thing for sure, it isn't me on one of those thrones!

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, George said:

The problems with this this is in reality there were more than 12 tribes (there are 14 named tribes in Scripture) ... and there were more than 12 apostles. 

Ah, another interesting subject to ponder 

My understanding is, and I'm by no means dogmatic in my thoughts as far as the twelve tribes. Dan and Ephraim reverted back to idolatry and had a major impact on the other tribes, therefore stripped of their promises from God; thus both of those tribes are omitted during the millennium, but eventually will be restored as I recall? 

I suspect the twelve apostle foundations of the New Jerusalem, are the original twelve, less Judas and Matthias replacing Judas Iscariot. Church documents, early church fathers, oral history and tradition says; all of the original apostles were martyred for their faith in Jesus Christ, save the Apostle John. I've wondered about the apostle to us, the gentiles, the Apostle Paul? I think he knew he would be disqualified from certain rewards from his own statement and reason why?

1 Corinthians 15:9 (KJV) For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.  

It's also interesting and I don't know the reason why, that our Lord and Savior had an inner-circle of close apostles; Peter, James [the greater, business partner with his brother John and Peter; the only apostle mentioned martyred in Acts 12:2] and John. They were allowed to witness miracles and events the other apostles were not privy too, including the transfiguration. I've heard mentioned it's possible they may have all grown up together and were close; as John was the 'beloved apostle', and did that occur prior to Jesus' ministry? 

Again, those are only my current thoughts and subject to change the more I study and learn. It's a wonderful thing we're going to have all eternity, because with all the questions I want to ask the Lord, it might take an eternity 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Dennis1209
Meant foundations not tribes; Dah...