Lawlessness Increasing

[The Light]

On 6/13/2020 at 2:03 PM, Revelation Man said:

The 7th King is the Anti-Christ the 8th King is Apollyon, that's above your pay-grade. You went off the cliff on the last sentence. 

 

 

The 7th King is an antichrist, but he is not the antichrist. As for Apollyon, he is not the 8th King. The 8th King is a man.

Isaiah 14

¹⁶ They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

 

LOL, love the

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The 7th King is an antichrist, but he is not the antichrist. As for Apollyon, he is not the 8th King. The 8th King is a man.

Isaiah 14

¹⁶ They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

 

LOL, love the

The 7th King is THAT MAN Isaiah 16:14 spoke of. The 8th tells you he is not of the 7 but is an 8th, meaning he is not a MAN or a Kingdom of this world. 

[The Light]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The 7th King is THAT MAN Isaiah 16:14 spoke of. The 8th tells you he is not of the 7 but is an 8th, meaning he is not a MAN or a Kingdom of this world. 

Yeah, I get it. I've gotten it for a long while. Instead of understanding what the scripture says and coming to a proper conclusion, you just change what the scripture says to fit what your conclusion is. This is just another example of why you are so confused brother. The scripture clearly says he is the eighth and is of the seven and you blindly claim he is not of the seven. What gives?

Rev 17

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Sorry, But I must have missed that teaching on the pretrib rapture by Paul? Was it 1 cor. 15? In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

How about 1 thess. 4? For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

How about 2 Thess 2? Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Actually, here we see the abomination coming FIRST.... And later.... And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:...

So when the LORD comes he will destroy the man of sin and rapture the church.... this is simple logic. 

So which verse is it that Paul says we will be raptured pre-trib that you are plagiarizing? I Can't seem to find it.

No, it was Paul's passage on the rapture in 1 Thes. Yes, certainly it will be "at the last trump:" it will certainly be the last trump of the church age, for the pretrib rapture will end the church age. It will probably also be the last trump at the Feast of Trumpets some year: maybe THIS YEAR?  Also take note, this is the trump of GOD: it is not a trumpet given to angels. 

No, definitely NOT "that day shall not come"  (if this was the phrase you were emphasizing.) for these are added words that Paul did not write. In this verse there is certainly a departing first: the one restraining being "taken out of the way."

No, NOT the abomination coming "first:" what comes first in this passage is the departing. Then, AFTER the departing comes first and then the man of sin revealed (He will be since the restrainer holding back his revealing) then all will know THE DAY has come. 

So when the LORD comes he will destroy the man of sin and rapture the church  Sorry, you are mixing together two comings: that has never worked and never will. The bible is clear that He will come twice more; first FOR His bride (the departing or gathering) and then over 7 year later another coming WITH His bride. (Hint: logic can never replace good exegesis.)

Try studying 1 Thes. chapter 5, where Paul tells us his rapture must come before (actually JUST before) wrath.  Note his use of "the Day of the Lord" and "wrath" in his rapture passage. i will even assist you here:

After Paul writes of the dead in Christ rising; he gives us a paradigm: showing us two groups of people and their outcome in one moment of time: those living in darkness will be left behind and will face "sudden destruction." Those living in Christ will get "salvation" or get raptured and get to "live together with Him." (Not live together with Him far into the future, but starting RIGHT THEN.) Paul does not come out and say this word for word, but he leaves a strong hint that this "sudden destruction" will be the start of the Day of the Lord and of His wrath. God will CERTAINLY set appointments for the "sudden destruction" for those left behind, but will set NONE for those in Christ who will be caught up. 

(I fully understand that those lost in prewrath theory who imagine the days of GT will be in the seals will not understand this due to preconceived glasses on.)

[iamlamad]

56 minutes ago, The Light said:

Yeah, I get it. I've gotten it for a long while. Instead of understanding what the scripture says and coming to a proper conclusion, you just change what the scripture says to fit what your conclusion is. This is just another example of why you are so confused brother. The scripture clearly says he is the eighth and is of the seven and you blindly claim he is not of the seven. What gives?

Rev 17

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Brilliant, "The Light!" This is one post of yours I agree fully with! Good job.

[RonaldBruno]

56 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It will probably also be the last trump at the Feast of Trumpets some year: maybe THIS YEAR?

A flaw with this view is that during the Feast of Trumpets, a shot at is blown by a human being. The last trumpet is blown by an angel. Therefore we need to find where in scripture are angels blowing trumpets - can you figure that out?

[dhchristian]

13 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Try studying 1 Thes. chapter 5, where Paul tells us his rapture must come before (actually JUST before) wrath.  Note his use of "the Day of the Lord" and "wrath" in his rapture passage. i will even assist you here:

After Paul writes of the dead in Christ rising; he gives us a paradigm: showing us two groups of people and their outcome in one moment of time: those living in darkness will be left behind and will face "sudden destruction." Those living in Christ will get "salvation" or get raptured and get to "live together with Him." (Not live together with Him far into the future, but starting RIGHT THEN.) Paul does not come out and say this word for word, but he leaves a strong hint that this "sudden destruction" will be the start of the Day of the Lord and of His wrath. God will CERTAINLY set appointments for the "sudden destruction" for those left behind, but will set NONE for those in Christ who will be caught up. 

(I fully understand that those lost in prewrath theory who imagine the days of GT will be in the seals will not understand this due to preconceived glasses on.)

Remember, I was pre trib, so I fully understand the pre trib thinking and logic, I am no longer pre trib because I see the flaws in that logic, flaws that have to complicate the simple reading of the text. The simplicity of Matthew 24 is that even simple fishermen and tax collectors could comprehend the eschatology therein, it did not take degree in Biblical studies. 

1 thess. 5 is no problem for the pre  wrath position either... let's take a simple look at it.

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. (Verses 1-10)

Again pre wrath is expressed here in verse 9, we are not appointed unto wrath... All the first part is speaking of is being awake and ready for what is to come, which is travail, the birth pangs becoming the labor "sudden destruction". If I may let me use modern political things here, MAGA Much of the church is consumed with this today, and the election upcoming. Let us say DJT wins the election, many in the church will be saying "peace and safety" yet they are ignoring the birth pangs we are seeing today, which is the point of this post. It is this passage that got twisted by some which was the impetus for Paul to write the 2nd Epistle to the Thessalonians, which was to clarify that  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (2 Thess. 2-3)

Here Paul is simply clarifying that the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin (the abomination of desolation) must come first. This is the simple reading of these two Epistles. As you may or may not Know, theses two Epistles are the first ones Paul wrote. He develops this more in depth in his later Epistles, primarily his Prison epistles and Pastoral Epistles. Christianity is not an escape from tribulation, in fact the opposite is true, True saving faith invites persecution and tribulation upon the believer (the testing of your faith). People who use Christianity as a form of "escapism" are in for a surprise in this regard. People will begin to hate you in fact because of your conviction. Hence the falling away.   

 

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, The Light said:

Yeah, I get it. I've gotten it for a long while. Instead of understanding what the scripture says and coming to a proper conclusion, you just change what the scripture says to fit what your conclusion is. This is just another example of why you are so confused brother. The scripture clearly says he is the eighth and is of the seven and you blindly claim he is not of the seven. What gives?

Rev 17

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And THIS BEAST is a Demon named Lucifer/Satan. In Rev. 17 its Apollyon, the Beast from the Pit. 

Rev. 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

So, the Beast/Dragon in Rev. 12 can be a Demon but the one in Rev. 17 can't be a Demon. Do you understand how this destroys your narrative? No, because your IDEAS are all important, the facts are just something that gets in the way. 

You misrepresent what I said.........I never stated he is not of the 7, I stated he is not a Human Being/Kingdom on the earth else the Beast with 7 Heads would have been a Beast with 8 Heads. And just like the Dragon doesn't make it have 8 Heads, neither does the Scarlet Colored Beast named Apollyon.

One more time.....Apollyon is "OF THE 7" in that he is a Demon Spirit placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region. He was over Israel and his A-1 job was to get rid of Israel because Satan knew the SEED would come from Israel. But he failed, God protected Israel with a wall of fire and the Red Sea. Next Apollyon tried to tote away the 10 tribes of Israel thinking he could poke a hole in Prophecy, God had seed from every tribe in Jerusalem, so there were never any lost tribes, just those that were evil, whom God allowed to be toted off, those of those 10 tribes who hated the Evil Northern kingdoms were living in Judea/Jerusalem, thus they were never any lost tribes.

Next came Babylon, Aopollyon thought he had the Jews in a position where he could destroy them, but God sent Nebuchadnezzar a dream and gave Daniel favor with him. Next up, Cyrus favored the Jews even though other kings from Persia later on more than likely wanted to conquer Israel again, but God defeated them with Alexander the Great, Apollyon tried to resist Micheal for 21 days in Daniel ch. 10. Then via the Romans Apollyon thought he had defeated the Jews once and for all, but he was sadly mistaken. God then locked him in the Bottomless Pit for the next 2000 some odd years, hes still there today, thus he WAS........Of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome which = 6 of the 7 heads shown in Revelation. Now Apollyon is locked up in the pit thus he........IS NOT, because he of course is not over the Mediterranean Sea Region anymore because he is in the Bottomless Pit, he's the King of the Bottomless Pit thus he "is not" at the moment. Coming soon, after the asteroid strikes in Rev. 8 Apollyon will be released, he will once again BE OVER the Mediterranean Sea Region a la being over the Anti-Christ Beast we see from Rev. 13. thus he......YET IS, meaning he was over the REGION, then he WAS NOT via the monkier IS NOT................but because he will once again be loosed and allowed to be a Demonic Beast over the REGION he YET IS !!

Its not that complicated. 

 

18 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Brilliant, "The Light!" This is one post of yours I agree fully with! Good job.

Of course you do, you are in error on everything but the Rapture. Which makes me think you might have drawn straws on that decision.

17 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Remember, I was pre trib, so I fully understand the pre trib thinking and logic, I am no longer pre trib because I see the flaws in that logic, flaws that have to complicate the simple reading of the text. The simplicity of Matthew 24 is that even simple fishermen and tax collectors could comprehend the eschatology therein, it did not take degree in Biblical studies. 

 

Just because you used to be Pre Trib doesn't qualify you as UNDERSTANDING the Raptures timing. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Revelation Man

[dhchristian]

34 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Just because you used to be Pre Trib doesn't qualify you as UNDERSTANDING the Raptures timing

There is no "test of Qualification" required for understanding, only the teaching of the Holy Ghost as opposed to men. I Know your responses better than you do because I have argued them before myself. 

 

[Revelation Man]

23 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

There is no "test of Qualification" required for understanding, only the teaching of the Holy Ghost as opposed to men. I Know your responses better than you do because I have argued them before myself. 

 

Of course there is, if you are wrong on something you are not qualified as being correct on it just because you once believed in it. Only TRUTH MATTERS, not what you once believed or did not believe. That was the whole point.