Andy Atheist On Human Free Will.

[JAG**]

Andy Atheist Wrote:
"If God is all knowing (Omniscient} then it logically
follows that if God knows today, what choices I will
make tomorrow, then I have no choice tomorrow
to do anything other than to make the choice that God
knew I would choose."___Andy Atheist


JAG Replies:
Yes it is true that since God is Omniscient and knows
the future and knows what you will choose to do, then
you will do that which He knows that you will do.

But , , ,
that does NOT mean that you did not freely choose
to do that which He knew you would do.

Here we need to understand what Free Will means.

Free Will means there is no Force external to you, that
forces you to do, that which you do not want to do.

God merely knowing what you will choose to do, does
not mean that God forces you to do, that which He knew
you would choose to do. Nor does it mean that you did
not want to do it. You did want to do it. Your Free Will
freely chose to do whatever you did.

It Is Vital To Remember That , , ,
Free Will means that there is no Force outside of you,
that is forcing or coercing you into choosing to do that
which is against what you want to do. The fact that God
knows what you will choose to do, does not mean that
there was any Force-Outside-Of-You coercing you to
do that which God knew you would choose to do.

__________

Secular Laws , , ,
Free Will is a secular truth, and not only a religious truth;
How so?
Because all of Civilized Humanity recognizes the legitimacy
of the institution of Free Will and has legislated human
Free Will into law. the Law says humans are responsible
for their choices. The Law recognizes the legitimacy of
the Institution of human Free Will.

Keeping in mind what Andy Atheist said, read this
dialogue between Henry and The Judge.

Henry: Your Honor, yes it is true that I robbed that bank
and in the process I killed three bank tellers, but Your
Honor, God is Omniscient and God knew I would rob
the bank and kill those three tellers, so Your Honor its
not my fault that I committed this crime, I merely did
what God knew I would do.

The Judge: Oh okay, Henry. I understand. Thanks for
explaining. Case dismissed.

So?
So humans Are Responsible For Their Free Will Choices.
So all this talk about Free Will NOT being a true, valid,
and legitimate explanation of why humans are personally
responsible before God for the evil choices they make
is irrational and belongs in the basement below the
basement where unproductive totally-useless abstract
philosophical academic speculations blathers on and on
and on.
Nothing said by humans can invalidate this truth: Humans
Are Responsible For Their Free Will Choices.
_________

Many Atheists blame God , , ,
However my view is that the air-tight solid truth
demonstrated in the conversation between
Henry and The Judge, will be dismissed as
nonsense by most atheists and the irrational
assault on the institution of human Free Will
as a legitimate and valid explanation of human
evil and sin will continue as if Henry and
The Judge had never been presented. Why?
Because atheists who remain atheists are
not going to ever give up blaming God for
the evil in the world -- and thereby excusing
themselves for their own Free Will evil
choices to do evil.

What does Henry and The Judge demonstrate?
That Humans Are Responsible For Their Free Will
Choices. -- and to say otherwise reduces to
absurd-nonsense.

The Coming Judgment , , ,
One last point: Not only does all of Civilized Law
recognize Free Will as a legitimate explanation for
human evil choices, but so does God and the Bible
and God's laws regarding Free Will will be applied
at The Judgment just as man's laws regarding Free Will
are applied in Human Courts. What does that mean?
It means that human Free Will choices will determine
human Eternal destiny. John 3:16 asks humans to make
a choice. Joshua 24:15 asks humans to make a choice.

"But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you,
then choose for yourselves this day whom you will
serve, whether the gods your ancestors served
beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites,
in whose land you are living. But as for me and my
household, we will serve the LORD." ___Joshua 24:15
 

[Justin Adams]

16 hours ago, JAG** said:

Yes it is true that since God is Omniscient and knows
the future and knows what you will choose to do, then
you will do that which He knows that you will do.

Pre knowledge does NOT mean predestination. It is an out of many contexts horrible idea. Just plain wrong!

Read about David at Kylar. God told him what would happen in answer to David's questions. They never happened. Now you can twist this account all you like (and many do to support their wrong doctrine) but it is self evident that pre knowledge is NOT predestination. If it were then God violates His own Character and stated love for mankind by making them IMAGERS of Himself.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Justin Adams

[JAG**]

2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Pre knowledge does NOT mean predestination. It is an out of many

contexts horrible idea. Just plain wrong!

Read about David at Kylar. God told him what would happen in

answer to David's questions. They never happened. Now you can

twist this account all you like (and many do to support their

wrong doctrine) but it is self evident that pre knowledge is

NOT predestination. If it were then God violates His own

Character and stated love for mankind by making them

IMAGERS of Himself.

Thanks for your comments.

My Opening Post has nothing to do with Predestination. Zero. 

The Opening Post does not mention Predestination.

Nonetheless I encourage you to rail against Predestination to your heart's content.

You have my blessings if you decide to do that.  

Your comments have zero to do with my Opening Post. Are you sure you

are in the right thread? 

Thanks again for your efforts. 

Also, one  wonders  . . .

Did you read the thread carefully?

Do you remember reading the following from the Opening Post?

JAG Replies:
Yes it is true that since God is Omniscient and knows
the future and knows what you will choose to do, then
you will do that which He knows that you will do.

But , , ,
that does NOT mean that you did not freely choose
to do that which He knew you would do.

Here we need to understand what Free Will means.

Free Will means there is no Force external to you, that
forces you to do, that which you do not want to do.

God merely knowing what you will choose to do, does
not mean that God forces you to do, that which He knew
you would choose to do. Nor does it mean that you did
not want to do it. You did want to do it. Your Free Will
freely chose to do whatever you did."___JAG

 

 

`

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by JAG**

[Justin Adams]

11 minutes ago, JAG** said:

Thanks for your comments.

My Opening Post has nothing to do with Predestination. Zero. 

The Opening Post does not mention Predestination.

Nonetheless I encourage you to rail against Predestination to your heart's content.

You have my blessings if you decide to do that.  

Your comments have zero to do with my Opening Post. Are you sure you

are in the right thread? 

Thanks again for your efforts. 

This is what you copy and pasted in your opening post I believe:

Yes it is true that since God is Omniscient and knows
the future and knows what you will choose to do, then
you will do that which He knows that you will do.

[JAG**]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

This is what you copy and pasted in your opening post I believe:

Yes it is true that since God is Omniscient and knows
the future and knows what you will choose to do, then
you will do that which He knows that you will do.

Thanks for your comments.

My Opening Post has nothing to do with Predestination. Zero. 

The Opening Post does not mention Predestination.

Nonetheless I encourage you to rail against Predestination to your heart's content.

You have my blessings if you decide to do that.  

Your comments have zero to do with my Opening Post. Are you sure you

are in the right thread? 

Thanks again for your efforts. 

Also, one  wonders  . . .

Did you read the thread carefully?

Do you remember reading the following from the Opening Post?

JAG Replies:
Yes it is true that since God is Omniscient and knows
the future and knows what you will choose to do, then
you will do that which He knows that you will do.

But , , ,
that does NOT mean that you did not freely choose
to do that which He knew you would do.

Here we need to understand what Free Will means.

Free Will means there is no Force external to you, that
forces you to do, that which you do not want to do.

God merely knowing what you will choose to do, does
not mean that God forces you to do, that which He knew
you would choose to do. Nor does it mean that you did
not want to do it. You did want to do it. Your Free Will
freely chose to do whatever you did."___JAG

 

[Alive]

A man is walking down a forest road and there are three forks in that road. One of those forks if taken to the left, will lead to a hidden and dangerous bottomless pit.

I built a wall preventing access to that left hand fork. The man still makes choices at the other two forks.

I care about this man, so I have manipulated his surroundings, but he still has free will--it is somewhat limited.

The man is my son.

[Hawkins]

Freewill is for God to have the right "not to know". God hides His face from humans when humans choose to sin. It is a form of separation from God. To a certain extent, it means God refuses to know what you are doing. God also has the right to choose not to listen to the prayers from sinners. As Christians we have the Holy Spirit with us and to say the prayers for us. God listens in this way due to Jesus being the mediator of our reconciliation. However in contrary, God also has the right to pay attention to our deeds and prayers simply because God has mercy on His sheep on earth. It is thus safe to assume that He knows everything about His own sheep. However it by no means says that He's willing to know what the wicked bearing in mind. As in the end, He will say, "Depart from me, I don't know you" to the wicked.

That said, a permanent separation literally means God will not know what the wicked doing. I think that hell fire is said more in a sovereignty perspective (similarly the saying "thrown to the Lake of Fire) as naturally those leaving God will end up being swallowed by fire. This universe is not a natural one, it is God-made. It is an unnatural environment. The natural environment is where outside our universe which could well be a sea of fire and energy. God is not the God of the dead, He thus has the right not to know how the freewill of the wicked goes.

My 2 cents.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Hawkins

[JAG**]

4 hours ago, Alive said:

A man is walking down a forest road and there are three forks in that road. One of those forks if taken to the left, will lead to a hidden and dangerous bottomless pit.

I built a wall preventing access to that left hand fork. The man still makes choices at the other two forks.

I care about this man, so I have manipulated his surroundings, but he still has free will--it is somewhat limited.

The man is my son.

Alive, thanks for your comments.

__________

Thought For Today:

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times.

But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what

to do with the time that is given us.”"___J.R.R.Tolkien

 

 

`

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Betha said:

'Human free Will' would in my op just about apply to anybody....but could it also include those who have the Holy Spirit of God and are subject to Him ? Are they to act on their own free Will ?

Every sin I sin, is me sinning. I chose, freely.
Before I was in darkness, blinded to the truth, moving about in darkness. Freely.
Now I have the light that exposes darkness, revealing the truth.
I am now equipped, and better qualified to choose.
But it is still my choice, to listen/respond to the truth, or not.
Free will.

[Prycejosh1987]

Although god knows everything it does not mean that we are helpless to make our choices. Its like football, we can tell who is going to win sometimes, based on the skills and past success of the team, but we still watch the game and enjoy the game and support the team that is losing and it might be the team we naturally support. God knows everything but that doesnt change or effect our choices as free willed people.