Alive Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 1, 2020 12 hours ago, Gideon said: We may want to remember the scripture that says "but it did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." We are all new creatures. But there is still a need to reckoning it so in or lives, for this is God's will that we exercise our faith and believe to "activate" his amazing truth so hat we can be partakers of its blessing. thanks for your additions to this post, Alive. i appreciate them. Gids There are aspects of our Life in Christ that are hard to articulate in human language---such things relate to the 'experiences' by the power of the Holy Spirit and our 'New Life' and Nature, that take the words off of the page and into experience. All sons of God recognize this reality because all sons of God have entered into this sort of dynamic in one way or another. As in all things related to our faith and the limitations of this earthen vessel, understanding and experience often come down to where the emphasis is placed. What do I 'need' to do and what place in all of this does Christ have? Faith to 'activate'. That is an interesting choice of words. To me, it is an illustration, of something that may be just a few degrees off of the Way. Those words evoke a mechanical thing--a switch, that we need to turn on. Let me suggest that this is the wrong way of approach and inevitably leads to a pressure which leads to 'self-effort'. Let me suggest another way that may be helpful to all that read. I pray it will. Many years ago, when I first got saved and before I ever visited a church (My testimony is elsewhere here), the Lord led me to a wee book by a brother called Watchman Nee. 45 plus years later, I still thank the Lord for that grace and the grounding that was provided. I am pretty sure the following illustration was brother Nee's, but it was long ago. Anyway, it still serves me to this day and is as vital now as when I first received it. The background is our knowledge that we are New Creatures 'In Christ' and all that is true of Christ, from the Father's point of view--is true of us. That is the background for this simple and yet profound illustration. Resting in and abiding in Christ is like sitting in your favorite easy chair. When you do so, you surrender to the comfort of the chair---you 'repose' in that chair and find rest and have ceased from the work of the day. Christ is just like that...we can 'repose' in Him and when we do, His Life and Nature flows through us and simply 'is' whatever we need in any given moment. Not a thing, not an idea and not a doctrine--but a Life. A very real and dynamic Life--which is ours. Christ in us.... You see--it is not a switch--it is more like a relinquishing. A reposing. When we cease, He is there. Alive and vital. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2020 13 hours ago, Gideon said: The only reason I questioned 'trusting in the Lord' is that some people assume this means that when God is ready to make me free indeed, He will. Our heart desire has much to do with what we receive from the Lord. Hungering and thirsting is a huge part of receiving. I am greatly blessed that we walk in much agreement. Be greatly blessed, David Gids The Lord has already made us "free indeed". The Bible says that everyone who has been born again overcomes the world. Even the hungering and thirsting after the things of God, is God's work in us. It is God who works in us, to will and to do of his good pleasure. This does not absolve us of our responsibility to cultivate our own salvation; but it does mean that the Lord gets all the glory, all our thanks, all our trust and all our praise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2020 Coming late to this thread and haven't read all the posts, but I am wondering if it would be fair to say the Lord has multi-pronged strategies for the perfecting of our faith...? Bible says if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. We sometimes just need to acknowledge our sin and purposefully ask, seek and knock until the Lord does cleanse us of it. Sometimes we don't even know that something is sinful in His eyes until the Lord shines His light and helps us to see and know that it is wrong. And some sins are inner things and issues that need cleansing such as believing a lie that we are unaware of, or a heart attitude that we are not aware that we have until a time comes when the Lord shows us. The bible also talks about the washing of the water of the word, and it is sometimes discernable how just hearing/reading/meditating on the word of God has a cleansing affect on the heart. Jesus also said that after having the bath and our whole body is clean but that we still need to have our feet washed periodically or could we even say regularly, and that if we dont' allow Him to wash our feet we can have no part with Him. There is also the fact that many need deliverance from demons before they are able to obey the word, because they are captives of the devil in some aspects of their life/mind/heart. This was such a major activity with the ministry of Jesus and His disciples but it is rare to find the church doing this, or doing it properly if it can be found at all. There might be other factors, but that's all that comes to mind at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Alive said: It was a valid question and you are taking an awful high position, here. IMO...this is way out of line for you to so indict a brother. What you are witnessing here is textualism in its most extreme. It is a shallow faith in doctrine that is devoid of the life changing experience. I Am shocked that you do not see this. It is man placing himself in the temple and declaring himself God, the embodiment of lawlessness using doctrine as an excuse to remain complacent in their state of denial. It is antichrist and anti church in all its self exalting humanism. It is the strong delusion of this textualism that will have many church goers stating "Lord, Lord did we not prophecy in thy name and do many miracles etc.... Yet they never Knew Him.... They never Knew the power of the Gospel. The greatest mission field in this world is inside of the churches, for there are so many there who are living in denial of their need of Jesus, the LORD and Savior.... I did not say that, others before me have said that, saints called by God to preach this message in the churches of men. What modern Christianity has turned into is nothing more than secular humanism with "Christian disguise".... textualism has so deconstructed the faith to a set of doctrines acknowledged by the mind which grants the follower there of "salvation" but there is no salvation there in the least bit, as they are still slaves to their old man, and the desires and lusts thereof. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (2 Tim. 3:5) These sorts are ignorant and blind to their state of denial, and soon will be overtaken of a reprobate mind in all they do and think, for their mind has not been transformed and renewed. I Suggest that you do some research on secular humanism and fully understand that this is the heart of what is antichrist. May I suggest you search for a video called Christian Humanism by Paris Reidhead You can find it at sermon index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 6 hours ago, David1701 said: The Lord has already made us "free indeed". The Bible says that everyone who has been born again overcomes the world. Even the hungering and thirsting after the things of God, is God's work in us. It is God who works in us, to will and to do of his good pleasure. This does not absolve us of our responsibility to cultivate our own salvation; but it does mean that the Lord gets all the glory, all our thanks, all our trust and all our praise. I disagree. Yes, the word does say those things. How did Jesus define "free indeed"? He defined it as free from committing sin. He that sins is a slave to sin. So, most definitely, we are not seeing saints walking there. Overcoming is walking is victory over the enemy.... the world, the flesh and the devil. David, these statements in the Word should be enormous red flags to us. This is what should be happening. The fact it is not is cause for great concern, yet by and large, our answer is "we have need of nothing." How was it the God could judge Ananias and Saphira if they were walking free indeed as overcomers. Their sin was frankly, far less than multitudes of saints today. How could the Lord speak to the Laodecians as He did, if He saw them as walking free indeed as overcomers. Why did John tell us "He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous"? Grace, real grace, is supposed to teach us how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. If that is not happening, we are by our unbelief limiting the holy one of Israel. We are missing the mark. Do you not see? Something is badly amiss in our spirit, yet none seem to want to admit it, for it will upset their doctrinal understanding of the truth. We hear these things and think the only alternative is going back to legalism, and that terrifies everyone.... including me, lol. We do not! What if...... what if God actually does cause His children to obey Him? He has promised it, you know. The New Covenant is promised both in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. But interestingly, in Exekiel 36, an additionsl promise is given.... a gospel-altering one that has been hidden from our understanding. "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them. Ezekiel 36:27 Oh, that we might see. Obedience, the core of the old covenant, is a promise to us in the new! We do not see it as possible, for we do not see it working in our walks. Why? Why, when temptation comes, do we not take the way of escape every time? What good is it for God to make a way of escape every time we are tempted if we do not choose to avail ourselves of it? The message I have been given exposes the reason why we are not enjoying the benefit of that promise. If we are new creatures and the old "us" died when Jesus died, that is truth. Rock solid truth. BUT, this amazing truth must be mixed with faith in order to work. We are asked not only to know we died with Him (head knowledge), we are then asked to "reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin" and by faith, appropriating that truth as OUR truth. It must become our shield. Why have we not believed that? Because up til now, we have not thought our old nature too bad.... just a work in progress. SLOW progress, lol. But here is the truth. We cannot change our old nature into a new nature. We must come to the point we HATE our old nature. It can never please God. It must die, and we do that, not by effort, not by legalistic obedience, but by FAITH! The axe must be laid to the root of the old tree. It must die. Sanctification is not slowly changing from sinner to saint. The change actually begins once we put off our old man by an act of audacious faith and begin agreeing with God that we ARE new. Sanctification starts when we believe we ARE new, and agree with God that we may still have fleshly bodies, but we no longer possess a fleshly spirit and owe it NOTHING. When satan comes tempting, how do we react? Do we resisting steadfast in the faith with the truth we are new and he has no authority or pull over us? Or do we try by our efforts to resist, but eventually, when it gets hard, we fall back on "well, no one is perfect and after all, I am only human." We are told if we resist him steadfast in the faith, he will flee from us. Bit if that is not happening, what is that telling us? It is telling us we are doing something wrong and our error is short circuiting the promises of God to lead us into the FREE INDEED He promised us. Our excuses sound reasonable to our minds. But the bottom line is that they are unbelief, pure and simple. Satan is lying and we are buying into it. Therefore many times, we do not take the way of escape. Instead, we give in, we sin, we repent, and yes, we get forgiven. But here is the deal.....we never GROW in faith! We stay the exact same. We never abide because the ones who abide have come to the place they are kept from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. The ones who abide believe God's promise that our shield of faith actually works. And praise God, it does! blessings, Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Josheb said: Good morning Gideon , One last question. Maybe it was answered in one of the posts (I quickly perused them again this morning) but may have missed it. Maybe conclude our exchange on positive notes. When you look in the mirror what do you see? That one is easy. I see an unworthy servant made worthy by my savior alone. I see a new creature who has been delivered from the power of darkness and who owes the flesh nothing. I see me in the mirror (duh, lol) yet not I any longer but Christ who now lives in me. I see a man who has not yet fully attained to what God is calling me to be but a man who is pressing in, yielding himself to God as one who is alive from the dead, confident that God, the potter will fully finish His work in me. blessings, Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 1, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Josheb said: So do all the admonitions in the op (and subsequently supporting posts) apply to you? Of course they do. I stand by faith, and if my faith is ahaken for one reason or another, I am capable of falling like anyone else. When one takes their stand of faith, the battle, which the Word calls "our good fight of faith" is not over, but truly just begun. God wills that we stand in the faith, resist satan in the faith, grow in the faith, endure in the faith, overcome the world by faith. It is in this way we eventually become established in the faith, unshakeable. Entering into the land of promise by faith is wonderful, but the enemy still needs to be driven out. That takes effort, but it is not working FOR the victory, but rather working IN it. I pray all understand, this is in no way legalism, or working to stay free indeed, but simply submitting to Christ working in us, through us to being about His full will for us. As Paul said, "I strive according to His strivings in me." When one puts on their new nature by faith, you do not think "OK, I have arrived. I do not need to watch, or pray, or press any longer. I can rest!" In truth, it is quite the opposite. You remember who you were and realize that without the armor of God, without your shield of faith, without letting your faith grow by meditating on His word, you can fall. God keeps you as you believe He will. It is way He actually causes us to walk obediently. We are never robots. He simply changes our 'want to. LOL. I can hear someone share truth about the new nature and they might have walked there a week. I have for fourteen years. But truth is truth and truth sets free, and I will be blessed and edified beyond measure by their sharing. I am a part of the body of Christ. If the body as a whole is in need, there is a part of me in need as well. When I use the term "we", I am preaching to me just as much as to others. I pray this helps. blessings, Gideon Edited July 2, 2020 by Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 2, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Gideon said: I disagree. Yes, the word does say those things. How did Jesus define "free indeed"? He defined it as free from committing sin. He that sins is a slave to sin. So, most definitely, we are not seeing saints walking there. Overcoming is walking is victory over the enemy.... the world, the flesh and the devil. Overcoming is living a life characterised by righteousness; nevertheless, every Christian's life is also marred by sin. He who practises sin is a slave to sin (his practise of sin is the proof); but a born again Christian still sins sometimes, which is why we are told to confess our sins to God and that he will be faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. There are many fake "Christians", who do not overcome, because they have not been born again. The Alpha Course seems to produce large numbers of these, along with other kinds of pseudo-evangelism. Quote David, these statements in the Word should be enormous red flags to us. This is what should be happening. The fact it is not is cause for great concern, yet by and large, our answer is "we have need of nothing." How was it the God could judge Ananias and Saphira if they were walking free indeed as overcomers. Their sin was frankly, far less than multitudes of saints today. How could the Lord speak to the Laodecians as He did, if He saw them as walking free indeed as overcomers. This is partly answered by what I've posted above. In the case of the Laodiceans, see the following. Rev. 3:21 (VW) To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 1 John 5:4,5 (ESV) 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world— our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? Jesus said to the Laodiceans that he who overcomes will with sit with Him on His throne. John said that everyone who has been born of God overcomes, by faith. Put these two together and you will see that there were those in Laodicea who were in the church but not of it; they were professing Christians, but not born again, hence the strong warnings. Quote Why did John tell us "He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous"? Grace, real grace, is supposed to teach us how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. If that is not happening, we are by our unbelief limiting the holy one of Israel. We are missing the mark. Answered above. He who practises righteousness, demonstrates thereby that he has been born again and is a genuine Christian. Quote Do you not see? Something is badly amiss in our spirit, yet none seem to want to admit it, for it will upset their doctrinal understanding of the truth. We hear these things and think the only alternative is going back to legalism, and that terrifies everyone.... including me, lol. We do not! Legalism is definitely NOT the answer! The answer is that MOST professing Christians have not been saved in the first place, often due to faulty evangelism and being assured that saying a prayer after the "evangelist", without the slightest sign of conviction, godly sorrow, repentance or genuine faith, has made the person saved, when it has done no such thing. Quote What if...... what if God actually does cause His children to obey Him? He has promised it, you know. The New Covenant is promised both in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. But interestingly, in Exekiel 36, an additionsl promise is given.... a gospel-altering one that has been hidden from our understanding. "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them. Ezekiel 36:27 I often quote that Scripture from Ezekiel, to show what the New Covenant is all about. Quote Oh, that we might see. Obedience, the core of the old covenant, is a promise to us in the new! We do not see it as possible, for we do not see it working in our walks. Why? Why, when temptation comes, do we not take the way of escape every time? What good is it for God to make a way of escape every time we are tempted if we do not choose to avail ourselves of it? The message I have been given exposes the reason why we are not enjoying the benefit of that promise. If we are new creatures and the old "us" died when Jesus died, that is truth. Rock solid truth. BUT, this amazing truth must be mixed with faith in order to work. We are asked not only to know we died with Him (head knowledge), we are then asked to "reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin" and by faith, appropriating that truth as OUR truth. It must become our shield. NO! The shield of faith, is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross, not in yourself! Quote Why have we not believed that? Because up til now, we have not thought our old nature too bad.... just a work in progress. SLOW progress, lol. But here is the truth. We cannot change our old nature into a new nature. We must come to the point we HATE our old nature. It can never please God. It must die, and we do that, not by effort, not by legalistic obedience, but by FAITH! A born again Christian does not have an old nature. He has a new nature, which he was given, when the Lord saved him. He still carries around with him the "body of death", which he will have until he dies or is resurrected (if he is still alive when the Lord returns). Quote The axe must be laid to the root of the old tree. It must die. Sanctification is not slowly changing from sinner to saint. The change actually begins once we put off our old man by an act of audacious faith and begin agreeing with God that we ARE new. Sanctification starts when we believe we ARE new, and agree with God that we may still have fleshly bodies, but we no longer possess a fleshly spirit and owe it NOTHING. The old man was put off when you were saved. Col. 3:9,10 (WEB) 9 Don’t lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his doings, 10 and have put on the new man, who is being renewed in knowledge after the image of his Creator, Quote When satan comes tempting, how do we react? Do we resisting steadfast in the faith with the truth we are new and he has no authority or pull over us? Or do we try by our efforts to resist, but eventually, when it gets hard, we fall back on "well, no one is perfect and after all, I am only human." We are told if we resist him steadfast in the faith, he will flee from us. Bit if that is not happening, what is that telling us? It is telling us we are doing something wrong and our error is short circuiting the promises of God to lead us into the FREE INDEED He promised us. Our excuses sound reasonable to our minds. But the bottom line is that they are unbelief, pure and simple. Satan is lying and we are buying into it. Therefore many times, we do not take the way of escape. Instead, we give in, we sin, we repent, and yes, we get forgiven. But here is the deal.....we never GROW in faith! We stay the exact same. We never abide because the ones who abide have come to the place they are kept from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. The ones who abide believe God's promise that our shield of faith actually works. And praise God, it does! blessings, Gideon Trust in the Lord with all your heart, not in yourself. He is our Saviour and without Him, we (even though we are born again) can do nothing. Edited July 2, 2020 by David1701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prycejosh1987 Posted July 8, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,176 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/29/1987 Share Posted July 8, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 4:59 PM, Gideon said: When you look into a mirror, who do you see? As we stare at ourselves in the spiritual realm, do we see ourselves sinners, still bound by our old fleshly natures? Saved perhaps, but still sinners who will never be able to walk in true obedience until Jesus returns? Or do we see ourselves as children set free from the old nature that continually has bound us and kept us earth-bound? I see a legend and a chosen vessel of god when i look in the mirror. I am not bound by fleshly nature, although i find it very hard to stay away from fleshly desires. I walk in true obedience, always and carry my cross daily. I dont think we will truly be rid of our old nature until we die and get saved, and go to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 8, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Prycejosh1987 said: I see a legend and a chosen vessel of god when i look in the mirror. I am not bound by fleshly nature, although i find it very hard to stay away from fleshly desires. I walk in true obedience, always and carry my cross daily. I dont think we will truly be rid of our old nature until we die and get saved, and go to heaven. 2Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure in aearthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of bthe power will be of God and not from ourselves; A careful reading of both letters to the Corinthians reveals a great deal about the man Paul and how he came to understand this reality for us who are born from above. Add to that study Romans 7 and 8. Good stuff! Paul was a man just as we all are. Praise the Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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