Hallowed Be Thy Name

[Jrussellk]

Hello everyone.  I am new to this but need some advice.  I am very interested in Christian theology and so I have weekly conversations with a Jehovah Witness.  She is wonderful and very knowledgeable about the Bible however I realize our beliefs are not always congruent (I am Methodist).  But I admire her so much-her discipleship is truly inspiring.  And I can have these deep conversations with her-that I have a hard time doing with my peers-generally speaking.  

One of the main differences (obviously) I noticed as we were comparing bibles is the name Jehovah.  She says it is His true name and He wants us to use it as a way of intimacy/friendship.  
 

I know/recognize Yahweh as His name from a college NT course I took as well as some research I have some on my own (lots of talk about Tetragrammaton, translation and dealing with vowels...). Yahweh is also used a couple of time in my NIV bible but mostly states LORD.  

She says that Jehovah was intentionally taken out of the Bible by men to keep us from establishing this personal (first-name-basis) relationship and that Satan has a hand in it. 
I do believe God wants us to search for Him and call Him by name. It makes me sad to think of something interfering or deceitfully pulling us apart. The importance of His name is-after all-emphasized in our Lord’s Prayer, not to mention the 10 commandments. So, should I be so concerned about this?  
She says the terms LORD and our GOD are His title and we need to use His actual name.  I like that idea-that God (or Yahweh) wants to be our friend but I also look at it-as I always do now-from a parent’s perspective. God is our Father.  My kids call me Mom.  That is our relationship and it is indeed very intimate (in the family sense).  It seems strange for them to call me by my actual name.  Could this be the reason maybe-using the term LORD as we are all children of God?

Becoming a parent has brought me so much closer to God as I have been enlightened with true understanding of agape love.  So it seems reasonable from my viewpoint.  
Perhaps it boils down to God speaking to people in different ways whether it is in a friendly manner or a family one.  

I will speak with her next week.  I plan to ask these questions but I would love any input/advice on this matter as I prepare.
 

And as always,  scripture always helps.  ? 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Jrussellk

[Debp]

2 hours ago, Jrussellk said:

I am very interested in Christian theology and so I have weekly conversations with a Jehovah Witness.

Friend, Jehovah Witnesses are a cult or sect only established in 1870; a split occurred in 1917 when they adopted the name of Jehovah's Witnesses.   They have their own translation of the Bible where they re-translate verses to suit their own doctrine.   They deny many major doctrines of the Christian faith including the deity of Christ!    So if you are interested in Christian theology, you shouldn't be conversing with a Jehovah's Witness....as they are a known cult/sect.

The following has Scriptures for you...

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jehovahs-Witnesses.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jehovah.html

[Alive]

Hello Jrussell...I would like to offer a couple of thoughts and associated scriptures for you to consider. These two issues are of the utmost importance to the Christian faith and are as clear as a bell in scripture. Jesus Christ and scripture are your friends.

The JWs do not believe that Jesus Christ is God and they believe that hard work is what gets you into God's favor and heaven. Both of these teachings are the opposite of what is True in Jesus Christ our Lord Savior and God.

Here are a few verses for you to consider for now and, please--if you have questions or want to discuss this, then let's do so.

The first two scriptures are from the New Testament of the Bible and the third is from the Old Testament of the Bible.

John 1:1    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This verse in in John states with perfect clarity who Jesus is. The Word is Christ.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

This verse says with perfect clarity that we are saved by grace and not anything that we do to earn it.

Is. 9:6  For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;

And the government will rest on His shoulders;

And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

This verse from the OT is talking very clearly about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who is God.

 

Please know this: JWs have gotten very tricky over the years at obfuscating their wrong teachings about these things, but this is what they teach.

Perhaps tomorrow, we can get into this and answer questions....there are some great folks here that desire to help lead you into Truth. And that Truth is simply Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus *said to him, “I am ^athe way, and ^bthe truth, and ^cthe life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

I pray that God will open your eyes to know Him.

[Who me]

17 hours ago, Jrussellk said:

She says it is His true name and He wants us to use it as a way of intimacy/friendship.  

As has already been stated the J A's are a cult, they are not Christian and the main reason this lady is meeting with you is to convert you to being a J W. She is also getting some of her street ministry time dealt with in the comfort of your home.

 

May I ask what is the reason you are talking with her?

Yes you said you have deep conversations that you don't get with your friends. Your objective should be to present Jesus to her as Saviour and Lord.

 

Calling God by his given name is irrelevant, to a member of his family.

You do know you have the Right to be a child of God. That you are a member of a holy nation, a royal priesthood and a co heir with Jesus.

Check out these ideas from the Bible and ensure after you've talked for a bit about what she wants to talk about that you raise these issues.

Remember as. Christian you have a testimony and a relationship with God, she does not for her it is all works.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Who me

[Tristen]

Hi Jrussellk,

The reason Old Testament translators replaced “Yahweh” with “LORD” is because the word Yahweh is considered the most sacred name of God to the Jews. It is therefore generally not spoken. When a Jew encounters “Yahweh” in the text, they will often read “Adonai” (Hebrew for Master/Lord) instead of Yahweh - out of respect for the sacred name of God. So the motives ascribed by your JW friend for the replacement of Yahweh are historically incorrect.

We don't know for sure how this name was originally pronounced because the original text doesn't contain characters for the vowel sounds. So it may be Yahweh, or Yahveh, or Yehovah, or Jehovah etc.. Jehovah is actually the least likely because the “J” sound doesn't appear in the Hebrew language (i.e. the language of Moses to whom God revealed this name).

I personally don't think God cares all that much about correct pronunciation (which I think is supported by the fact that God hasn't made the proper pronunciation clear to us). For example, “Jesus” is an English transliteration of the Greek word “Iosus”, which is a translation of the Hebrew word “Yeshua” (a shortened Hebrew form meaning Yahweh our Saviour). In Christianity, the names of God are important for what they reveal about God's nature. The Bible gives us many names for our God that reveal different aspects of His nature. Yahweh means the eternal self-existent one - “I Am that I Am” (See Exodus 3:13-15). That is, Yahweh is the God whose existence has no reliance outside of Himself. He exists; regardless of whether or not humans believe in, or worship, Him. He doesn't need us, but we certainly need Him.

God is happy for us to call Him “Father”.

Romans 8:15 - For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6 - And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

God loves us as His children. He wants us to see Him and trust Him as our loving Father.

 

[Deborah_]

On 7/9/2020 at 10:13 PM, Jrussellk said:

Hello everyone.  I am new to this but need some advice.  I am very interested in Christian theology and so I have weekly conversations with a Jehovah Witness.  She is wonderful and very knowledgeable about the Bible however I realize our beliefs are not always congruent (I am Methodist).  But I admire her so much-her discipleship is truly inspiring.  And I can have these deep conversations with her-that I have a hard time doing with my peers-generally speaking.  

One of the main differences (obviously) I noticed as we were comparing bibles is the name Jehovah.  She says it is His true name and He wants us to use it as a way of intimacy/friendship.  
 

I know/recognize Yahweh as His name from a college NT course I took as well as some research I have some on my own (lots of talk about Tetragrammaton, translation and dealing with vowels...). Yahweh is also used a couple of time in my NIV bible but mostly states LORD.  

She says that Jehovah was intentionally taken out of the Bible by men to keep us from establishing this personal (first-name-basis) relationship and that Satan has a hand in it. 
I do believe God wants us to search for Him and call Him by name. It makes me sad to think of something interfering or deceitfully pulling us apart. The importance of His name is-after all-emphasized in our Lord’s Prayer, not to mention the 10 commandments. So, should I be so concerned about this?  
She says the terms LORD and our GOD are His title and we need to use His actual name.  I like that idea-that God (or Yahweh) wants to be our friend but I also look at it-as I always do now-from a parent’s perspective. God is our Father.  My kids call me Mom.  That is our relationship and it is indeed very intimate (in the family sense).  It seems strange for them to call me by my actual name.  Could this be the reason maybe-using the term LORD as we are all children of God?

Becoming a parent has brought me so much closer to God as I have been enlightened with true understanding of agape love.  So it seems reasonable from my viewpoint.  
Perhaps it boils down to God speaking to people in different ways whether it is in a friendly manner or a family one.  

I will speak with her next week.  I plan to ask these questions but I would love any input/advice on this matter as I prepare.
 

And as always,  scripture always helps.  ? 

 

I've had similar conversations with JWs recently (i e before the lockdown)

The ones that I have met have been quoting John 17:6, where Jesus says "I have revealed your name to those whom you gave me." Trying to persuade me that the name He revealed was the name Jehovah/Yahweh (even though the Jews had been aware of that name for centuries!).

But in the last few weeks I've been studying John's Gospel and one thing has struck me very powerfully: the name that Jesus uses for God (almost exclusively) throughout John's Gospel is "the Father". The 'new' name for God that He revealed was 'the Father'! Which of course is why He taught us to pray, "Our Father.." God wants us to call Him "Father".

Think about it... anyone can call you by your name, but only your children can call you 'Father' (or 'Mother', in our case). So using the name 'Father' implies a more personal relationship, not a lesser one!

Edited July 17, 2020 by Deborah_