Universal Reconciliation

[FineLinen]

River of healing

Welcome to therapeuo

"The angel showed me the river of the water of life, flowing with water clear as crystal, continuously pouring out from the throne of God and of the Lamb. The river was flowing in the middle of the street of the city, and on either side of the river was the Tree of Life, with its twelve kinds of ripe fruit according to each month of the year. The leaves of the Tree of Life are for the healing of the nations. And every curse will be broken and no longer exist." -TPT

Edited December 15, 2020 by FineLinen

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 minutes ago, FineLinen said:

Our God is  ta panta, the Beginning and Ending of the all. The prophets and sages of the Glorious God, from whom all comes and all ends, clearly declares a time of apokatastasis when the all shall be restored to Him  changed and transformed. 

This Scripture is towards the [future] when people can "choose/refuse" the Mark of the Beast.

11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

If God is going to allow these people to burn in Hell forever, why would He give those who have lived and died in their sins a different outcome?

[FineLinen]

15 minutes ago, FineLinen said:

Our God is  ta panta, the Beginning and Ending of the all. The prophets and sages of the Glorious God, from whom all comes and all ends, clearly declares a time of apokatastasis when the all shall be restored to Him  changed and transformed. 

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

Last edited: Mar 31, 2019

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

6 minutes ago, FineLinen said:

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

Last edited: Mar 31, 2019

 

So, to understand more of your viewpoint here, are you claiming even those in a burning hell like Revelation 14 describes will be unleashed from their torment and renewed?

 

Therefore, the understanding of the words [forever and ever] is a literal misconception of fact?

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

Technically, the Nephilim were 50% human from their mother's side.   We know the Flood of Noah was designed to kill them.   But because they are 50% human, does Universalism/Salvation mean they are in Heaven?

NO. 1st Enoch explains that the spirits of dead Nephilim are the demons that bother us and seek other bodies to inhabit. They are forever done for. They are UNCLEAN (mixtures) and are condemned.

[FineLinen]

51 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

So, to understand more of your viewpoint here, are you claiming even those in a burning hell like Revelation 14 describes will be unleashed from their torment and renewed?

 

Therefore, the understanding of the words [forever and ever] is a literal misconception of fact?

The Lake of Fire has two defining characteristics, theion and theioo, both rooted in Theos. Our God IS consuming Fire as His essence. Anything and everything He touches has radical change involved!

[Guest kingdombrat]

31 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

NO. 1st Enoch explains that the spirits of dead Nephilim are the demons that bother us and seek other bodies to inhabit. They are forever done for. They are UNCLEAN (mixtures) and are condemned.

Amen!

[Guest kingdombrat]

2 minutes ago, FineLinen said:

The Lake of Fire has two defining characteristics, theion and theioo, both rooted in Theos. Our God IS consuming Fire as His essence. Anything and everything He touches has radical change involved!

So we should look at this from the angle that those without God will be consumed and tormented forever and ever [VS] those who are "Saved" will become purified and be with God forever and ever?

 

I don't see how Revelation 14 means anything but what it states pertaining to their smoke/their torture/burning forever and ever meaning they will never be with God in the next life.

[FineLinen]

20 hours ago, FineLinen said:

The Lake of Fire has two defining characteristics, theion and theioo, both rooted in Theos. Our God IS consuming Fire as His essence. Anything and everything He touches has radical change involved!

Fire

Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent

How shallow is the common view of “fire” as only or chiefly a penal agent.

Fire, in Scripture, is the element of…“Life”…Isa. 4:5

“Purification”…Matt. 3:3“Atonement”…Lev. 16:27

“Transformation”…2 Pet. 3:10

**And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.**

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God’s fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns.

Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, “aflame to the very tips of our fingers.”

And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God’s Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God’s wrath, but of His being

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a “fire unfolding itself” (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and “the appearance of fire.” (Ezek. 8:2)Christ’s eyes are a flame of “fire” (Rev. 1:14).The seven lamps of “fire” are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5).

So a fiery stream is said “to go before God,” His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10).

His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6);

He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32).

And God’s ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4…Heb. 1:7).

It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes–call it, if you please, a paradox–in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, “Thy God is a consuming Fire,” and “Thy God is a merciful God” (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)–words full of significance. -Thomas Allin (Christ Triumphant)

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by FineLinen

[FineLinen]

1 minute ago, kingdombrat said:

So we should look at this from the angle that those without God will be consumed and tormented forever and ever [VS] those who are "Saved" will become purified and be with God forever and ever?

 

I don't see how Revelation 14 means anything but what it states pertaining to their smoke/their torture/burning forever and ever meaning they will never be with God in the next life.

Evidently St. Paul was unaware that ta panta excludes some of the fallen wrecks of sin and despair. What about the 15,000 children who die today, and every day of every year worldwide, under age 5, unredeemed by the Saviour?

Gather up the fragments that remain that nothing be lost.

Are broken scraps of fish and bread of more value than the remnants of broken vessels of sin and futility? ?