The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[DeighAnn]

The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church.

I am writing (make that trying to write)  a paper and as you WILL SEE I need help (more like an overhaul) with its accuracy and presentation.  I have many "bits" that I believe ask many of the the questions and give many of the answers I am trying to explain but every time I go back and "revise" it keeps getting  worse. I am looking for any important things I have missed, answers to questions I do not have.  I am setting out a "fleece" of sorts.   It could be God just wants me to do it on my own (He has before).   I will soon have my answer either way.  

The "proof" given for the Church being raptured before the tribulation is given by  (have missed some important parts, I'm sure I have)

1.  Its lack of being mentioned after Revelation chapters 2 and 3.  
2.  We are not appointed to Gods Wrath
3   I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation
4   the word "day" is sometimes "days", and  "door" is mentioned "doors"
5   The Word uses "return and cometh", and they mean different things 
6  Gods trump is not the last trump
7  Only Israel is blinded - it is Jacobs trouble
8  Jews must suffer for rejecting Christ
9  Jesus comes as a thief in the night - unexpectedly  and to those who believe they have secured their house but they haven't
10 The tribulation is not for the church
11  Coming in the air is not coming all the way 
12 Two harvests
13 Noe and Lot are different events
14 He comes quickly, at an hour not known
15  only saints to stand
16  only saints to overcome the Overcomer
17  only saints to endure to the end

But why is the church being raptured?  What purpose of God is it serving?  IDK


What is the CHARACTER of this "pre trib raptured church"?  They must need no testing.   They go as a group, their faith, belief and worship in The ONE TRUE GOD, must be without question.  They must be at every moment be striving to be without spot or blemish in their holy walk towards perfection to not get "left" (should I add "having received the free gift of salvation, justified through Him..?) 

What is "the church" bringing to Heaven?   (Seems to me like there would be a better time, with heaven either getting ready for a war or maybe already in the middle of one and all.  And what about that 1/2 hour of silence going to be happening when Satan is cast out, how will that affect the whole wedding thing?).  

So, What does the "pre trib raptured church" look like upon its arrival? 

THE GOOD
THE BAD
THE UGLY


Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

I wonder how that happens up in heaven but i can't find anything written on the subject.  If the light of the church is for the world.??  

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

WHAT exactly are these end time churches to OVERCOME?  Certainly most churches are not having any problems, especially in America, freedom of religion and all.  Not like anyone is getting killed for being a Christian in this country.  People may not agree with each other but they aren't persecuting, not like other places.  Now I know that "the Overcomer" is being sent to the earth.  Are they going to have to overcome in heaven?  The Word says nothing on this.  Didn't Jesus tell us he has foretold us all things?  Why did He never speak about  this "pre tribulation" event?

 

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.  (UH_OH)

Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Should I go on to give the explanations of what these "churches" look like in todays world here or wait?  I think it is important but is almost a different subject. 

The trials and tribulations remain same as everyone who has ever lived.  Since they wont be here for the tribulation of Satan, that cant be what is overcome.  These are the doctrines going to heaven with them.  How is that going to sit with GOD??   Is a "pre trib raputure" a good thing??


This next part of the church is even more confusing to me .  Is half this church STAYING and the other half going?

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

AGAIN, this next part is confusing as well. 

Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So is the part that is going to stay and be cast into great tribulation the part that has to overcome?  Does the part "Raptured" receive only as the part that stays?  So many questions I am unable to find answers for. 

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 

WHICH HIM?  The him that stayed or the him that "Raptured"?

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the MORNING STAR.

Revelation 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

 Does this church also have "some that will and some that won't".  These churches that have been once divided by this doctrine into the gentile converts only, are now being divided again between each other, and divided again within a single one.   Wouldn't it be so much simpler to let them ALL BE TESTED through the tribulation?  No greater love....
 

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Which he?  The one "Raptured" or the one staying?  

Revelation 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Why does Christ keep saying "unto the churches" as if they are all one?  We can certainly see that SOME of the 'hims' are different than the other hims just as this church is different than the others.  

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Now this church certainly seems to be the only one that would really be "welcomed" in heaven at a"pre trib rapture" yet EVEN THEY ARE TOLD, to HOLD FAST, THAT NO MAN TAKE THY CROWN.  Who is it trying to take their crown?  If HE will make them "the synagogue of Satan" come to worship at their feet, wouldn't they be the ones trying to take it?  

Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
THESE are the one that are spoken of in Ezekiel.

Revelation 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I don't know how much convincing it would take to convince me that these churches are pre trib rapped, but so far that surface hasn't even been scratched.  

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
HE is standing at the door, He knocks, AND IT ISN'T "THE CHURCH" WHO is to open the door, it is "any man".  

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Now THIS church is staying right here on earth. They have works, they have tribulation, and they are poor in the riches of the world.   Certainly Satans minions are amongst them telling lies about GOD and HIS Plan and are presently fighting amongst them.   Maybe that is the purpose here.  THEY can discern Satans lies from Gods truth.  THE other churches don't have that.  They are actually worshipping and sacrificing to false gods.  

Strange that THIS is the CHURCH NOT BE HURT AT THE SECOND DEATH.  Will they, having stayed on the earth and overcome the Overcomer to receive  the same promises as the churches "Raptured"?  Will the "raptured" receive this considering...? 

This is a real and specific separation from the others.  If indeed there is a "rap" I would hope to be a part of this part of the church and stay.

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


In summary the Rapture Doctrines "Church" taken to Heaven pre trb  which will have you asking God many questions.
 

 thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.  (UH_OH)

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Will someone please tell me "WHY" God would completely change HIS purpose and treat so differently from all time "this end time church"?  Why would the "body of Christ" not WANT to be given the OPPROTUNITY to Stand  up for our God against the Adversary?  (I believe it is fear of pain, nothing more.  don't think so?  Ask yourself, If our flesh was shed and we were in our spiritual bodies that felt no pain, would you  be willing to Stand  then?)  We read throughout the Word that God tests.  We read why He tests.  We read what His testing produces in us.  WHY would our Lord who remains the same always COMPLETELY CHANGE His method of operation for these most important of all times?

[Marathoner]

Good morning @DeighAnn. I enjoy reading your contributions and find your earnest study of God's words inspiring. 

I have something brief to contribute. I consider the Lord's prayer as recorded in the 17th chapter of John a compelling refutation of the rapture doctrines. This simple verse (John 17:15) sums it up:

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." KJV

Nothing is impossible to the Lord. Christ is more than capable of sparing the sealed from the wrath (and plagues) to come and should we suffer them, then let us give thanks remembering how our Lord suffered and the tribulation which saints have endured ever since He ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne. 


 

[Last Daze]

46 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Will someone please tell me "WHY" God would completely change HIS purpose and treat so differently from all time "this end time church"? 

He won't.  That assumption is largely the construct of western affluence and perceived privilege.  Sure, the pretrib rapture's made its way into other cultures but at its root is the idea of an entitlement for a privileged few at the end.  It's something that appeals to those who are predisposed to believing it.  It has no basis in truth however.  I think a lot of westerner believers are starting to see the vulnerability of their culture and are reconsidering.  Hopefully.

[The Light]

33 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Good morning @DeighAnn. I enjoy reading your contributions and find your earnest study of God's words inspiring. 

I have something brief to contribute. I consider the Lord's prayer as recorded in the 17th chapter of John a compelling refutation of the rapture doctrines. This simple verse (John 17:15) sums it up:

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." KJV

Nothing is impossible to the Lord. Christ is more than capable of sparing the sealed from the wrath (and plagues) to come and should we suffer them, then let us give thanks remembering how our Lord suffered and the tribulation which saints have endured ever since He ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne. 


 

I'm pretty sure that the apostles were used to spread the truth that Jesus is the Messiah. They were witnesses to the truth so it would only be reasonable that they would not be taken out of the world.

So you refutation of the rapture doctrine is left wanting.

Here refute this:

1 Thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Edited July 23, 2020 by The Light

[Diaste]

37 minutes ago, The Light said:

I'm pretty sure that the apostles were used to spread the truth that Jesus is the Messiah. They were witnesses to the truth so it would only be reasonable that they would not be taken out of the world.

So you refutation of the rapture doctrine is left wanting.

Here refute this:

1 Thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Fact of the occurrence, not timing of the event.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Will someone please tell me "WHY" God would completely change HIS purpose and treat so differently from all time "this end time church"? 

He won't. That assumption is largely based on error. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He saved Noah from the flood. He will save the Church from the time of Jacobs trouble and then the wrath of God. He saved Lot from destruction, just as he will save the 12 tribes across the earth before the wrath of God is unleashed. Only the nation of Israel will remain on earth during the wrath and they will be in a place of protection. Sure, replacement theology and covenant theology has spread through the Church, like a cancer, despite the fact that God kept His promise and restored Israel. The root of the idea is based on hatred of God's chosen, though many who follow these false teachings do not comprehend that. It has no basis in truth whatsoever. Unfortunately, or maybe not, I think a lot of believers are going to get a taste of what is to come in the coming year and will be reconsidering. Hopefully, because, Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[DeighAnn]

50 minutes ago, The Light said:

1 Thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

  You are so close, you only missed it by 3 verses.  GOD tells us THE TIME of this event.  Here it is
 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

And we know Christ is returning at the 2nd Advent for the Day of Vengeance when He returns as Lord of lord and King of kings.  

MOST CERTAINLY, if HE WERE speaking of "another day" it would have been mentioned as BEING AT A DIFFERENT TIME AND DAY .

But He didn't, so it isn't. 

God is very specific.  The angels at the tomb tell us HE will descend as He ascended.  Jesus quits reading in the temple right BEFORE day of vengeance, if "pre trib" was a truth Isaiah would have written it and Jesus would have stopped before it, but that just didn't happen

[The Light]

25 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Fact of the occurrence, not timing of the event.

Truth of the fact, not occurrence of the timing.

Edited July 23, 2020 by The Light

[DeighAnn]

4 minutes ago, The Light said:

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Yes, the Day of Vengeance.  

[Diaste]

28 minutes ago, The Light said:

Truth of the fact, not occurrence of the timing.

Gobbledygook