Why can't we blame God for things that happen?

[Faithwilldo]

21 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

The Word says of Lucifer
 

Ezek 28:15-16

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
KJV

if I say I found something does not say I placed it there!

which the text further indicates it was His 'multitude of thy merchandise' saying the gifts placed in his use to magnify God lead him to sin/rebel against God....

light cannot be darkness nor darkness be light just as yes cannot be no and no yes....
Ps 145:17

17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.
KJV
 

just as God has said that the creation bears witness of Him
 

Rom 1:20

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
KJV

so to say God created in His Persons 'evil- moral evil sin'  is to accredit God to sin and that is blashemy.... especially when God testified it was found in Lucifer by reason of his gifts....

The verse you quoted is not speaking about Satan.  Lucifer is not the name of Satan.  The Hebrew word translated as Lucifer (H1966 heylel: describing the king of Babylon) should be translated as "shining one".  The devil's name is Satan and he was created "to destroy".  He was never anything different.   The verse you quoted is speaking of a man, probably Nebuchadnezzar.  

There is no verse of scripture that says God cannot create or use evil for His good purposes.  Quite the contrary, there are many verses that say God not only creates evil but He frequently uses evil to accomplish His will.  I have quoted many of them which you will not accept but seem to ignore.  If you want to find the truth, you cannot ignore any verse of scripture.  In case you didn't read them, here are some of them along with a few more:

Ecc 1:13  An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Ecc 7:13  Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

1 Sam 16:14  But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Ezek 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet...

Job 42:11  Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him:

Isa 45:7  .  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Jer 18:11   And now, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith Jehovah: Behold, I prepare evil against you, and devise a device against you: turn ye then every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mankind does not just live by the good (bread/truth) that comes out of the mouth of God.  We live by "every word" which includes the evil that God has created and uses.

Lam 3:38   Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

If you will not believe what God's Word says, then there is nothing more I can say.    

Joe

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Faithwilldo said:

The verse you quoted is not speaking about Satan.  Lucifer is not the name of Satan.  The Hebrew word translated as Lucifer (H1966 heylel: describing the king of Babylon) should be translated as "shining one".  The devil's name is Satan and he was created "to destroy".  He was never anything different.   The verse you quoted is speaking of a man, probably Nebuchadnezzar.  

There is no verse of scripture that says God cannot create or use evil for His good purposes.  Quite the contrary, there are many verses that say God not only creates evil but He frequently uses evil to accomplish His will.  I have quoted many of them which you will not accept but seem to ignore.  If you want to find the truth, you cannot ignore any verse of scripture.  In case you didn't read them, here are some of them along with a few more:

Ecc 1:13  An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Ecc 7:13  Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

1 Sam 16:14  But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Ezek 14:9  And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet...

Job 42:11  Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him:

Isa 45:7  .  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Jer 18:11   And now, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith Jehovah: Behold, I prepare evil against you, and devise a device against you: turn ye then every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mankind does not just live by the good (bread/truth) that comes out of the mouth of God.  We live by "every word" which includes the evil that God has created and uses.

Lam 3:38   Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

If you will not believe what God's Word says, then there is nothing more I can say.    

Joe

Agree to disagree strongly...

[Faithwilldo]

14 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Agree to disagree strongly...

I understand that you disagree but I don't understand where your beliefs are coming from if not from scripture.  

Joe

[BeauJangles]

7 hours ago, Faithwilldo said:

God is not evil (dark) but He clearly says that He uses evil to accomplish good.

I tend to look at it in this perspective. Misfortunate situations occur, yet the Lord turns them around and we benefit regardless of these events*. It's a matter of overall attitude He is looking for. This bolsters faith which is the motivational factor of His will being to our advantage in the long run. I truly believe God desires a win-win for our lives in Christ Jesus. Is this name-it-and-claim-it? No.

Power of positive thinking? (Norman Vincent Peal)? No, hardly. Positive confession of faith? Maybe a little, but still no. We must realize bad things are going to befall us sometime down the road. No one ends up winning all the time, nor do horrible things have to be our lot in life. It rains on the just and the unjust alike*. I think this was mentioned by me on another thread. "Stuff happens". 

Romans 8:28 KJV ²⁸And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose*.

Matthew 5:45 KJV ⁴⁵That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust*.

Edited August 16, 2020 by BeauJangles

[Faithwilldo]

1 minute ago, BeauJangles said:

I tend to look at it in this perspective. Misfortunate situations occur, yet the Lord turns them around and we benefit regardless of these events*. It's a matter of overall attitude He is looking for. This bolsters faith which is the motivational factor of His will being to our advantage in the long run. I truly believe God desires a win-win for our lives in Christ Jesus. Is this name-it-and-claim-it? No.

Power of positive thinking? (Norman Vincent Peal)? No, hardly. Positive confession of faith? Maybe a little, but still no. We must realize bad things are going to befall us sometime down the road. No one ends up winning all the time, nor do horrible things have to be our lot in life. It rains on the just and the unjust alike*.  I think this was mentioned by me on another thread. "Stuff happens". 

Romans 8:28* ²⁸And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Matthew 5:45 KJV ⁴⁵That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust*.

There are no "misfortunate" situations.  God is in full control of His creation and nothing happens unless God causes it to happen.  There are no accidents or mistakes.  Satan is not acting outside of God's will nor does evil happen by chance or by mankind's supposed "free will".   As for mankind's salvation, it is 100% the work of Christ and He has stated that He will save each of us at the time God has chosen.   God's Elect that are being saved now in this age cannot die prematurely or have anything happen to them that is not part of God's plan.  Mankind could not be in better hands.

Ecc 3:1  To everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Ecc 3:11  He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Prov 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24  Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23  I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps. 

Isa 26:12  O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Joe

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Faithwilldo said:

I understand that you disagree but I don't understand where your beliefs are coming from if not from scripture.  

Joe

It is your interpretation of Scripture I disagree with...
I gave you the verses that prevents me from interpreting evil as you interpret evil... I see God as holy and do not see Him in any way shape or form involved with moral evil as you claim... in fact it repulses me to here it said! God has placed a judgment within all sin that self destructs in its use within each individual whom God loves this to God an evil but not a moral evil... God has cursed this world which He created and loved this an evil but not a moral evil.... God brings calamity upon life -life that He was pleased with an sanctified and this is the evil I understand God speaks of using and in no way does He utilize moral evil in any way ever... I do not believe in situation ethics where the end justifies the means and I certainly do not see evil as a necessary element ever in God's plans... Scripture is clear- eternity will not even have the thought of evil ever existing for it has no place with God or us His children and that's Scripture...
 

Oh and the Lucifer / satan thing that also is your interpretation as many scholars see it this way
https://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html 

[R. Hartono]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:21 AM, LonerAndy said:

Because we have free will.

You can stop your kids from every doing anything wrong in life.  How you do that, is by chaining them up, and dictating every aspect of their lives.

Then because they have no ability to make a choice, and every action or lack of action, is because you dictated it.... then it would be your fault for anything that happened to your kids.

But you can't do that can you?   Your parents can't control every action, or lack of action, that you take in life.   So you can't blame them for what happens to you in this life, can you?

 

Thats true,

Further we will have no trouble and not even able to blame a thing, if we as human are created with installed program like this :

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by R. Hartono

[Faithwilldo]

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

It is your interpretation of Scripture I disagree with...
I gave you the verses that prevents me from interpreting evil as you interpret evil... I see God as holy and do not see Him in any way shape or form involved with moral evil as you claim... in fact it repulses me to here it said! God has placed a judgment within all sin that self destructs in its use within each individual whom God loves this to God an evil but not a moral evil... God has cursed this world which He created and loved this an evil but not a moral evil.... God brings calamity upon life -life that He was pleased with an sanctified and this is the evil I understand God speaks of using and in no way does He utilize moral evil in any way ever... I do not believe in situation ethics where the end justifies the means and I certainly do not see evil as a necessary element ever in God's plans... Scripture is clear- eternity will not even have the thought of evil ever existing for it has no place with God or us His children and that's Scripture...
 

Oh and the Lucifer / satan thing that also is your interpretation as many scholars see it this way
https://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html 

I see God only as holy, too.  But God is not like mankind.  Scripture clearly says that God uses "all things" (which includes evil) to produce many new sons of God (purpose of creation).  It all works together - the good and the evil.  To God, evil is no more than a tool that He deems necessary in the creation of His children.  To be fully made into the image of God, mankind must understand good and evil.  

Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Have you ever considered why God put the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL in His Garden?  And why God put Satan in the Garden as well?  He did it so that Adam & Eve would sin and learn the difference between good and evil.  We all must eat of that Tree and experience evil - not just the receiving end of evil but to actually be evil ourselves.  Adam and Eve's sin was not by accident (nothing ever is).  God caused it to happen as this verse clearly says:  

Ecc 1:13  An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

God gave us this experience of evil because it is necessary if we are to be like God (knowing good and evil).  Once evil has run its course and accomplished its goal, God will bring an end to the evil of this world and God will be "all in all".  

1 Cor 15:20-28  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.  Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So for you to say that God does not create or use evil, you are missing one of the most important parts of our salvation.  The knowledge of Good & Evil is a gift from God.  It is not pleasant for the moment but child birth never is.  

But God will see us ALL through it and in "due time", we will all be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth:

1 Tim 2:3-6  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 

Psa 145:9   The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works (includes God's use of evil).

Joe

Edited August 16, 2020 by Faithwilldo

[Faithwilldo]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Thats true,

Further we will have no trouble and not even able to blame a thing, if we as human are created with installed program like this :

Where does it say in scripture that mankind has a "free will"?   

It is true that mankind can make "choices" but the choices we make are caused by God.  

This is what scripture says:

Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

Prov 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24  Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

If mankind has a "free will", then these verses are not true.

Joe

[CaptWalker]

20 hours ago, Faithwilldo said:

The good works that we produce are actually God's good works that He does through us.

Isa 26:12  O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

Also, good works will not save a person.  Faith in Christ (not just believing in Him but also believing what He says) that God gives us is what saves us.  When we mature, we will produce fruits of the spirit and good works but we cannot take credit for them.  God is the potter and we are simply clay.  Anything good that comes from the clay is the work of the potter.  Our salvation is 100% in the hands of God - we contribute nothing.  

Joe

  

 

 

"Whatever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave,whither thou goest." {Ecclesiastes-9:10}

"He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack; but he that hides his eyes shall have many a curse." {Proverbs-28:27}

"As it is written: 'He has dispersed abroad, he has given to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.'" {2nd Corinthians-9:9}

"And to her is was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints." {Revelation-19:8}

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by CaptWalker