Why can't we blame God for things that happen?

[Alive]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

I'm really sorry you're unteachable, brother. I'll just let you go on your way then. Take care. God bless. 

This is a personal insult and not required to make your theological point...please refrain from doing so.

[Alive]

16 hours ago, Faithwilldo said:

If you commit even just one sin, you must die.  Christ is our near-kinsman redeemer.  He purchased our sin debt and now we owe Him our death.  He collects it by destroying our Old Man and then gives us new life as a child of God.  This event happens at the time of the latter rain.  

Jesus Christ is the Life--to have Christ is to have the Life. This happens when we are 'Born from above'. This happens very simply because we were placed into Christ of the Father so that when Christ died on the Cross, we died with Him, when He rose we rose with Him in New Life--the New Creation--when He ascended, we ascended in/with Him and so we are--our Life is hidden with Christ in God.

This is the Gospel. In addition to the Life, we have forgiveness of sins and have been given as a free gift the very righteousness of Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Every born from above son of God has the Holy Spirit within and His job is to convict, teach and point to Christ--who is the solution for all things related to our Life and Conversation.

This is the Gospel.

[Faithwilldo]

16 minutes ago, Alive said:

This is a personal insult and not required to make your theological point...please refrain from doing so.

It's no problem.  I take no offense.  

Joe

    

 

 

[BeauJangles]

  1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

I'm really sorry you're unteachable, brother. I'll just let you go on your way then. Take care. God bless. 

Alive said: This is a personal insult and not required to make your theological point...please refrain from doing so.

No insult intended. My apologies to the poster and Worthy moderators. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by BeauJangles

[BeauJangles]

11 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said:

It's no problem.  I take no offense.  

Joe

Thanks, Joe. I never meant it as such. I appreciate your understanding in the matter. 

[Faithwilldo]

25 minutes ago, Alive said:

Jesus Christ is the Life--to have Christ is to have the Life. This happens when we are 'Born from above'. This happens very simply because we were placed into Christ of the Father so that when Christ died on the Cross, we died with Him, when He rose we rose with Him in New Life--the New Creation--when He ascended, we ascended in/with Him and so we are--our Life is hidden with Christ in God.

This is the Gospel. In addition to the Life, we have forgiveness of sins and have been given as a free gift the very righteousness of Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Every born from above son of God has the Holy Spirit within and His job is to convict, teach and point to Christ--who is the solution for all things related to our Life and Conversation.

This is the Gospel.

You said:  

Jesus Christ is the Life--to have Christ is to have the Life. This happens when we are 'Born from above'.

I certainly agree with your statement.  However, the pathway that leads to "life" is not simple at all.  Paul's conversion is the pattern whereby all who are saved must follow:

1Tim 1:16  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.  

Paul's conversion which was "typed" for us in scripture is the pathway everyone must follow in order to be saved.  It is detailed out for us (in spiritual language of course) in Acts chapter 9.  It is shown to us in bit and pieces in several other sections of scripture but this is the most complete teaching. 

Here is a quick overview of the pathway.  It includes the pathway that leads to destruction and the pathway that leads to life as Christ mentioned in Mat 7:13-14.  We must follow both paths.

This first set of verses below represent Paul’s time of being Called into the Church.  This is the Early Rain of the Spirit and the time when we travel the pathway that leads to destruction.

Acts 9:3-9  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:  4  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?  5  And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.  6  And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.  7  And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.  8  And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.  9  And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

These events which happened to Paul symbolize the process that we all must go through to enter the Church.   

The key parts of Paul’s calling are underlined in the verses above and are explained below verse by verse. 

Verse 3:  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:   

When an individual is “called out” from this world to follow Christ, Christ will appear to them suddenly and without invitation.  We do not have the free will ability to choose Christ as is commonly taught in the Church.   Christ’s gifts and calling are without repentance (Rom 11:29) and are by His will and not ours (John 1:12-13).  When Christ does appears to us, it is a spiritual event that happens within us (Luk 17:21).  Christ cannot be seen with human eyes.                                                                                                                                                               

Verses 4 & 5:  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?   And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

When Christ spiritually appears to an unbeliever, they immediately fall to the earth.  This symbolizes their carnality and their having risen up out of the sea of humanity to dwell on the earth.   Since the new believer remains carnal and spiritually blind, they cannot recognize the “voice” that calls to them.  They must rely on being told who He is.  Since Paul answers back to the voice as “Lord”, we know that this event is the Early Rain of the Spirit upon the individual (1Cor 12:3).  We call Him Lord but lack the ability to know Him for ourselves.  He remains hidden from our understanding.                                                                                                                                                   

Verse 6:   And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

From our carnal perspective, we believe that we must produce good works to please the Lord and that is why Paul immediately asks “what wilt thou have me to do?”  The Lord answers him by saying to arise and go into the city.  The “city” represents the Great City which is Sodom and Egypt.  Once in the city, someone (Church leaders) will tell him what he must do.   At that point, the new believer “falls away”.

Verse 7:  And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

No one with Paul experienced what Paul did.  This appearance by Christ is only for the person who has been “called” by Christ.   It is a completely spiritual event – meaning it happens “between our ears”.  

Verse 8:  And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 

After Paul opens his eyes, he “saw no man”.  This blindness of Paul’s represents his spiritual blindness.   It goes on to say that Paul had to be led by the hand.  This explains why a new believer readily follows the false doctrines of the Church (the blind leading the blind).  The new believer has no ability to follow Christ for themselves.  They are forced to follow other men (the teachings of the carnally minded, spiritually blind Church). 

Verse 9:  And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Paul was blind and sick in bed for 3 days.  The number “3” represents spiritual death.   Paul’s time of blindness & death represents the time of Great Tribulation that each new believer must endure in the Church.  It is the time of our “falling away” (2Thes 2:3).  The new believer is now in the Church and has no ability to know the Truth which would set them free from her.   Since Paul cannot receive the true bread from Heaven while in this spiritually darkened state, the scripture says that Paul does not “eat or drink” during the 3 days.   It is at this point that the new believer becomes a Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition.   He is now “fallen away” and tries to please God through works of the flesh.  Just the simple belief in the Doctrine of “Free Will” will cause a believer to fall away.  By believing in that doctrine, we take credit for making the “right choice” to follow Christ when in fact, we are not responsible for that decision – Christ is.  He gave us that gift of faith before we repented (Just as Paul “typed” for us on the road to Damascus).   Our salvation (every step of the way) is 100% the work of Christ.         

The second set of verses below represent Christ’s second appearance to Paul (after the 3 days are fulfilled) which is the latter rain and the pathway that leads to life.

Acts 9:15  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:  16  For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.  17  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.  18  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.  19  And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Here are my associated comments with the underlined portions of the above scriptures.

Verse 15:  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Here we are told that Paul is “chosen” regardless of His current carnal state and that Paul will bear His name to the world.  All of God’s Chosen vessels will likewise bear Christ’s name to this world.

Verse 16:  For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

When we truly follow Christ in this world, we will suffer for it, no exceptions (Rom 8:17 & John 15:20).                       

Verse 17:  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 

Ananias symbolizes Christ who will come to His Chosen to give them sight (spiritual understanding) and the Holy Spirit.                                                                                                                   

Verse 18:  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

When Christ comes a second time to those who have been Called & Chosen, among the gifts that He gives them are spiritual understanding, spiritual life and the Holy Spirit.   This event is called the Latter Rain of the Spirit/Baptism of the Holy Spirit.         

Verse 19:  And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

After these “gifts” from Christ, Paul “eats” of the true bread (no longer mixed with leaven Mat 13:33) from heaven and is sanctified by the truth.  Paul is now saved. 

Joe 

 

 

[Alive]

Well Joe--that is quite the construct you have put together there. I have heard much of it in the past.

Actually Salvation (the pathway that leads to Life) is a very simple thing and it is accomplished in a single moment, as I described in my earlier post.

You have described a slice of the history of a man and read a great deal into it in order to 'prove' a notion that you have. To prove a doctrine of what some refer to as the 'second blessing'. I applaud your detail, but I don't agree with any of it taken as a 'course' from death to Life.

[Faithwilldo]

4 minutes ago, Alive said:

Well Joe--that is quite the construct you have put together there. I have heard much of it in the past.

Actually Salvation (the pathway that leads to Life) is a very simple thing and it is accomplished in a single moment, as I described in my earlier post.

You have described a slice of the history of a man and read a great deal into it in order to 'prove' a notion that you have. To prove a doctrine of what some refer to as the 'second blessing'. I applaud your detail, but I don't agree with any of it taken as a 'course' from death to Life.

Yes, the moment of conversion happens quickly BUT the path that leads up to that moment is very involved.

Mat chapter 24 and Luke 21 also teach on the pathway.  These chapters are not speaking of end-time prophecy as is commonly taught.  It is teaching on conversion and has been happening just as Christ laid out since the Day of Pentecost.  

Why do you believe that God spent so much time detailing out Paul's conversion?   Does it not teach you anything or is it just a story from history with no deeper meaning?

Joe 

[Alive]

I am sorry @Faithwilldo, but I am not interested in that conversation.

[CaptWalker]

If one is a "chosen vessel" or one of God's ELECT, then yes He can and often does "interfere" in their lives to direct them to the right path HE has established and "willed" for them to be on, and can attest to that personally! But as far as the rest of the "whosoever's" they can of course receive salvation but God will not do with them what He does with His own "chosen" ones. So the real problem with such arguments is in not clarifying that and lumping us ALL together as far as what God decides or "causes" to happen, and to assume that He is just as involved and active in the lives of non-believing,non-praying heathens as He is with us, but it's just that "they" don't recognize it...?? Just trying to get a better understanding of these type "teachings".