abcdef Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 On 8/19/2020 at 7:29 AM, iamlamad said: 1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them I can't imagine how you imagine what you do from this passage. First off, they are LOCUSTS, not people. Second, they come out of the bottomless pit - hell. They have a sting like a scorpion. They are told to sting all people that are not sealed (all but the 144,000). Their sting is so powerful, people want to die - probably try to kill themselves - but God will not allow death. It is the first WOE. God has designed it to be a WOE. This makes good sense in its literal sense, so there is no reason to symbolize it. People that symbolize Revelation can make it say anything. The 6th trumpet - 2nd woe - kills 1/3 of earth's population. Again, it makes good sense. it is an ANGELIC army that kills. God has said that the Day of the Lord would be destruction on the world, and killing the sinners in the world. Here at the 6th seal, He is fulfilling the second part of that. I am sorry, but I call what you wrote, MYTH. It is pure human imagination with no scripture to back it up. Ok, if you really want to know, I can explain it. But it will take some time. Ask me any question you wish, but keep it short and simple. ------- The 5th trumpet shows the Vatican becoming a nation again in 1929, the return of the Roman Empire (sea beast), reuniting with the image empire (earth beast), which is the Roman religion (RCC) of Caesar worship. The Roman Empire, as a city/nation (sea beast) fell in approx 476 AD., after that time the Roman Empire (sea beast) was in the place of the dead, "the abyss". So the sea beast Roman Empire died, but the religious empire (Caesar worship), the RCC earth beast image, continues to this day. But in 1929 the 2 became one again, the religious earth beast, reunited with the "national beast," "city/nation," sea beast. The sea beast ascends out of the abyss in Rome to sit on the seat of the beast, the city of Rome the same location as 2000 years ago. If someone says that the beast is a man, it is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome (BoR). So basically, that is what the 5th trumpet is showing. This event took place 91 years ago. This is one of the first signs that Jesus is coming for the resurr/rapt at the 2W's/7th trumpet. ----- "The fifth angel sounded," The number 5 is the number of separation or division. This is shown in the 10 virgins, they were divided 5 and 5, two separated groups. This trumpet is the one mentioned in Matt 24:31, that calls for Israel to separate from the gentile nations, towards the end of the times of the gentiles (ToG's), 70 AD-1967, to restore Jerusalem. After 1929, that is exactly what happened. The people of Israel were driven from Europe back to the land of Israel and Jerusalem. This is another sign of His coming. Not the coming to destroy Jerusalem with the armies of Rome, but the resur/rapt coming of the 7th trumpet. If the time after 1929 had not been shortened, then no flesh of Israel would have been saved. (Trib. period, 70 AD-1967), (3 1/2 times). -------- One key to understanding the seals, trumpets, and vials in the time line is what happens after the events depicted. For example, as a result of the 5 trumpet, countless enemies are released to attack the broken branches and the Pentecost gospel kingdom on planet earth. The weapons and traits of the entities are a describing the spiritual side of the entities. These a compared to the spiritual weapons that Christians use, the gospel sword, the shield of faith, etc.. ------ More later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2020 8 hours ago, abcdef said: Ok, if you really want to know, I can explain it. But it will take some time. Ask me any question you wish, but keep it short and simple. ------- The 5th trumpet shows the Vatican becoming a nation again in 1929, the return of the Roman Empire (sea beast), reuniting with the image empire (earth beast), which is the Roman religion (RCC) of Caesar worship. The Roman Empire, as a city/nation (sea beast) fell in approx 476 AD., after that time the Roman Empire (sea beast) was in the place of the dead, "the abyss". So the sea beast Roman Empire died, but the religious empire (Caesar worship), the RCC earth beast image, continues to this day. But in 1929 the 2 became one again, the religious earth beast, reunited with the "national beast," "city/nation," sea beast. The sea beast ascends out of the abyss in Rome to sit on the seat of the beast, the city of Rome the same location as 2000 years ago. If someone says that the beast is a man, it is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome (BoR). So basically, that is what the 5th trumpet is showing. This event took place 91 years ago. This is one of the first signs that Jesus is coming for the resurr/rapt at the 2W's/7th trumpet. ----- "The fifth angel sounded," The number 5 is the number of separation or division. This is shown in the 10 virgins, they were divided 5 and 5, two separated groups. This trumpet is the one mentioned in Matt 24:31, that calls for Israel to separate from the gentile nations, towards the end of the times of the gentiles (ToG's), 70 AD-1967, to restore Jerusalem. After 1929, that is exactly what happened. The people of Israel were driven from Europe back to the land of Israel and Jerusalem. This is another sign of His coming. Not the coming to destroy Jerusalem with the armies of Rome, but the resur/rapt coming of the 7th trumpet. If the time after 1929 had not been shortened, then no flesh of Israel would have been saved. (Trib. period, 70 AD-1967), (3 1/2 times). -------- One key to understanding the seals, trumpets, and vials in the time line is what happens after the events depicted. For example, as a result of the 5 trumpet, countless enemies are released to attack the broken branches and the Pentecost gospel kingdom on planet earth. The weapons and traits of the entities are a describing the spiritual side of the entities. These a compared to the spiritual weapons that Christians use, the gospel sword, the shield of faith, etc.. ------ More later. I am truly sorry I asked. If anything, this can be compared to how a 7th Day teacher would answer. Sorry, but I have to stick with what is really written. I have no imagination. Therefore I disagree with all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: I am truly sorry I asked. If anything, this can be compared to how a 7th Day teacher would answer. Sorry, but I have to stick with what is really written. I have no imagination. Therefore I disagree with all of this. Ok. Here. just to remind you, is the pretrib version of the 5th trumpet, A big hole opens up and Satan comes out with a bunch of bugs that bite a lot of people and people get really dumb and forget how to commit suicide. Oh, don't try to look any deeper than that because somebody said so. That is pretrib for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, abcdef said: Ok. Here. just to remind you, is the pretrib version of the 5th trumpet, A big hole opens up and Satan comes out with a bunch of bugs that bite a lot of people and people get really dumb and forget how to commit suicide. Oh, don't try to look any deeper than that because somebody said so. That is pretrib for you. It is not science fiction: Jesus has taken many people to SEE hell, and come back and tell others about it. They all tell very similar stories which confirms they all went to the same place. Hell is very real. Now a little common sense: there are openings we cannot see, in the spiritual world, "tunnels" if you please from many or perhaps several places around the world: they go from the surface of the earth DOWN towards the center of the earth, down to hell. I know of a man who died 4 times in a row. Three times he went down to the gates of hell, but his mother's prayers brought him back to his body. On the third time down, he repented, got born again, and stopped going down. the 4th time he died, He went UP, not down. Each time a voice spoke and he returned to his body. the three times in hell (He could see the fire but had not passed through the gates) he could not understand the voice, but when he died the 4th time and started up, he did understand. Maybe I am wrong with the tunnels: perhaps in the spiritual realm, a human can go straight down from any place on the planet. This man seemed to go straight down from where he was, and came straight back up to his house. But in the spirit, and in total darkness, how could he know it was a straight line? The point is, we KNOW hell is a real place. Is it a stretch to believe there are insects there kept for the end times - prevented from leaving hell until God SENDS them? Perhaps the "bottomless pit is separate from hell. We don't know because the bible does not tell us. But we can certainly KNOW it is real, for the bible talks about it. We also know that Satan will be locked up in the same bottomless pit, so perhaps it is separate from hell. In any case, if he can be locked up there, why not little stinging locusts? God holds the keys to death and dying. If He says no, then NO ONE can commit suicide: God will not permit the spirit to leave the body. Do you have a hard time believing the bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, iamlamad said: It is not science fiction: Jesus has taken many people to SEE hell, and come back and tell others about it. They all tell very similar stories which confirms they all went to the same place. Hell is very real. Now a little common sense: there are openings we cannot see, in the spiritual world, "tunnels" if you please from many or perhaps several places around the world: they go from the surface of the earth DOWN towards the center of the earth, down to hell. I know of a man who died 4 times in a row. Three times he went down to the gates of hell, but his mother's prayers brought him back to his body. On the third time down, he repented, got born again, and stopped going down. the 4th time he died, He went UP, not down. Each time a voice spoke and he returned to his body. the three times in hell (He could see the fire but had not passed through the gates) he could not understand the voice, but when he died the 4th time and started up, he did understand. Maybe I am wrong with the tunnels: perhaps in the spiritual realm, a human can go straight down from any place on the planet. This man seemed to go straight down from where he was, and came straight back up to his house. But in the spirit, and in total darkness, how could he know it was a straight line? The point is, we KNOW hell is a real place. Is it a stretch to believe there are insects there kept for the end times - prevented from leaving hell until God SENDS them? Perhaps the "bottomless pit is separate from hell. We don't know because the bible does not tell us. But we can certainly KNOW it is real, for the bible talks about it. We also know that Satan will be locked up in the same bottomless pit, so perhaps it is separate from hell. In any case, if he can be locked up there, why not little stinging locusts? God holds the keys to death and dying. If He says no, then NO ONE can commit suicide: God will not permit the spirit to leave the body. Do you have a hard time believing the bible? Wow, tunnels from the earth to hell? People commit suicide but don't die? If they cut off their heads, which part of them doesn't die? the head or the body? You take what people say as scripture? Show me in the scriptures where Jesus where Jesus took someone to the torment side of Hades and brought them back again to tell about it. The insects only sting those without the seal? What if someone converts to Jesus? do the bugs stop stinging them? They would say, "The bugs stung me before I was a Christian, but now that I am a Christian, they don't", like a really good bug spray. Or maybe the bugs don't sting the ones who are sealed, but sting the Christians and Israelites anyway. --------------------- You see, that if the symbols themselves are taken as literal (bugs), it really doesn't make much sense at all. It is what the bugs REPRESENT/Symbolize, that is the meaning of the text. The spirits in both the 5th trumpet (Rev 9:10) and 6th trumpets (Rev 9:19) are false teachers. This is confirmed in Isa 9:15-16. ------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 21, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2020 5 hours ago, abcdef said: Wow, tunnels from the earth to hell? People commit suicide but don't die? If they cut off their heads, which part of them doesn't die? the head or the body? You take what people say as scripture? Show me in the scriptures where Jesus where Jesus took someone to the torment side of Hades and brought them back again to tell about it. The insects only sting those without the seal? What if someone converts to Jesus? do the bugs stop stinging them? They would say, "The bugs stung me before I was a Christian, but now that I am a Christian, they don't", like a really good bug spray. Or maybe the bugs don't sting the ones who are sealed, but sting the Christians and Israelites anyway. --------------------- You see, that if the symbols themselves are taken as literal (bugs), it really doesn't make much sense at all. It is what the bugs REPRESENT/Symbolize, that is the meaning of the text. The spirits in both the 5th trumpet (Rev 9:10) and 6th trumpets (Rev 9:19) are false teachers. This is confirmed in Isa 9:15-16. ------------- The book of Acts was only the START of the church. The church has continued since that day. Supernatural events have continued since then. God has spoken to people countless times since then. Some of these events have been recorded in books. The books are there for anyone to read. They are there for the benefit of all who chose to read. As I said, many have been taken to hell and many have been taken to heaven, and returned to earth to give their testimony. Of course their testimony is not scripture, but if they AGREE with scripture, then they can encourage believers. Look, I did not write this, JOHN did backed by the Holy Spirit. Did you just not read, or perhaps just not believe? Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. I take this to mean, God will not allow the human spirit to leave the body. OF COURSE this is for this time only, for later one the Beast will certainly kill people. So you have a choice to believe it or deny it. Show me in the scriptures where Jesus where Jesus took someone to the torment side of Hades It is not IN scripture - but then a LOT of what God does is not in scripture. If you don't know of these books, I wonder where you have been. Here is a testimony of a girl that saw both heaven and hell. Here is a small part of her story: We were standing on a sort of rock with angels surrounding us. I said, "Lord, I don't want to go to that place!" He said, "Daughter, do not fear for I am with you." In a split second we descended into a dark hole. I tried to see but there was terrible darkness. I did see a huge circle, and hear millions of voices. It was so hot, I felt my skin burning. I asked, "lord, what is this? I don't want to go to this place!" The Lord said that this was just the tunnel to hell. There was a horrible, repulsive and nauseating smell, and I begged Jesus not to take me. He responded, "Daughter, it is necessary for you to come and know this place." I cried, "but why, Lord, why?" And He said, "so that you can tell the truth to humanity; humanity perishes, it's lost and few are entering my kingdom." ... When Pope John Paul II died, my friends and relatives would tell me that he had gone to heaven. All the news on TV, and Extra, and many other places would say, "Pople John Paul II has died, may he rest in peace. He is now rejoicing with the Lord had His angels in heaven" and I believe all of it. But I was only fooling myself, because I saw Him in hell, being tormented by flames. I looked at his face, it was John Paul II! The Lord said to me, "Look, Daughter, that man you see there is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place; he is being tormented because he did not repent." But I asked, "Lord, why is he here? He used to preach at our church." Jesus replied, "Daughter, no fornicator, no idolater, and no one who is greedy and no liar will inherit My Kingdom." I replied, "yes, I know that is true, but I want to know why he is here, because he used to preach to multitudes of people!" And Jesus responded, "Yes, Daughter, he may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. he never said the truth and they know the truth, and although the knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He would not offer reality; would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists; Daughter, now he is here in this place. ... The Lord said, "look, Daughter, I am going to show you the life of this man." Jesus showed me a huge screen on which I could observe how this man offered mass many times to the multitudes. And how the people who where there were so idolatrous. Jesus said, "Look, Daughter, there are many idolaters in this place. Idolatry will not save, Daughter. I am the only ONE who saves, and outside of me, no one saves. I love this sinner, but I hate sin, Daughter. ... I began to see how this man received multitudes of coins and bills; money, all of which he would keep. He had so much money. ..." This is just a small part of what she saw. And this is one example out of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted August 22, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 17 hours ago, iamlamad said: The book of Acts was only the START of the church. The church has continued since that day. Supernatural events have continued since then. God has spoken to people countless times since then. Some of these events have been recorded in books. The books are there for anyone to read. They are there for the benefit of all who chose to read. As I said, many have been taken to hell and many have been taken to heaven, and returned to earth to give their testimony. Of course their testimony is not scripture, but if they AGREE with scripture, then they can encourage believers. Show me in the scriptures where Jesus where Jesus took someone to the torment side of Hades It is not IN scripture - but then a LOT of what God does is not in scripture. If you don't know of these books, I wonder where you have been. Here is a testimony of a girl that saw both heaven and hell. Here is a small part of her story: We were standing on a sort of rock with angels surrounding us. I said, "Lord, I don't want to go to that place!" He said, "Daughter, do not fear for I am with you." In a split second we descended into a dark hole. I tried to see but there was terrible darkness. I did see a huge circle, and hear millions of voices. It was so hot, I felt my skin burning. I asked, "lord, what is this? I don't want to go to this place!" The Lord said that this was just the tunnel to hell. There was a horrible, repulsive and nauseating smell, and I begged Jesus not to take me. He responded, "Daughter, it is necessary for you to come and know this place." I cried, "but why, Lord, why?" And He said, "so that you can tell the truth to humanity; humanity perishes, it's lost and few are entering my kingdom." ... When Pope John Paul II died, my friends and relatives would tell me that he had gone to heaven. All the news on TV, and Extra, and many other places would say, "Pople John Paul II has died, may he rest in peace. He is now rejoicing with the Lord had His angels in heaven" and I believe all of it. But I was only fooling myself, because I saw Him in hell, being tormented by flames. I looked at his face, it was John Paul II! The Lord said to me, "Look, Daughter, that man you see there is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place; he is being tormented because he did not repent." But I asked, "Lord, why is he here? He used to preach at our church." Jesus replied, "Daughter, no fornicator, no idolater, and no one who is greedy and no liar will inherit My Kingdom." I replied, "yes, I know that is true, but I want to know why he is here, because he used to preach to multitudes of people!" And Jesus responded, "Yes, Daughter, he may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. he never said the truth and they know the truth, and although the knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He would not offer reality; would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists; Daughter, now he is here in this place. ... The Lord said, "look, Daughter, I am going to show you the life of this man." Jesus showed me a huge screen on which I could observe how this man offered mass many times to the multitudes. And how the people who where there were so idolatrous. Jesus said, "Look, Daughter, there are many idolaters in this place. Idolatry will not save, Daughter. I am the only ONE who saves, and outside of me, no one saves. I love this sinner, but I hate sin, Daughter. ... I began to see how this man received multitudes of coins and bills; money, all of which he would keep. He had so much money. ..." This is just a small part of what she saw. And this is one example out of many. Ok, the Mormons have books, JW's have books, Islam has books, Roman Catholics have books, do you believe that they are true? There is no doubt in my mind that our prayers are heard, and great miracles have happened as a result. But I have also read many books that are "out there", which many people who don't believe in God, absolutely believe are true. I know that they are lies because they contradict the scriptures. The scriptures are truth (narrow), people are liars (wide). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted August 22, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, iamlamad said: Look, I did not write this, JOHN did backed by the Holy Spirit. Did you just not read, or perhaps just not believe? Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. I take this to mean, God will not allow the human spirit to leave the body. OF COURSE this is for this time only, for later one the Beast will certainly kill people. So you have a choice to believe it or deny it. The death that men seek is to die to this world and become alive to God through Jesus. (Not physical death) This is shown in Rom. 6:1-11. This is the gospel message of the kingdom/church. ------- The false teacher scorpions (Isa 9:15-16) attack the broken branches and the Pentecost kingdom by using lies and confusion. The weapon of confusion against the gospel sword is shown in the sound of the chariot wheels in v 9. The great noise of these false teachers confuses and drowns out the loving gospel preaching. It's like preaching the gospel in a stadium of screaming fans who could care less about the gospel message of salvation, and even if they did, how could they find it, or hear it? Faith comes through hearing, but how can they hear, with the noise of the chariots? (Roman false teacher lies, the RCC is the only church, only the RCC church will be saved, all other churches are not Christians they are harlots, the RCC is exclusively Israel, the Bishop of Rome (BoR) is the Holy Father, sprinkling is immersion, original sin, etc, etc, etc, all designed by Satan to keep souls from salvation.) ------- The breastplates of iron Rev 9:9, covers their heart from the penetration from the gospel sword. The Christian breastplate is righteousness Eph 6:14, so the breastplate of these false teachers would be something like unrighteousness, or the lack of righteousness, that would cause their heart to harden against the loving gospel message. Also see that the iron may be associated with the iron nation legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2. ------- The long hair v 8 symbolizes their attachment to the spiritual realm, the evil "no love for Israel" side, the "destroy Israel" side, not God. Remember about the hair of Sampson, that his hair was attached to his power from God, in one way. ------- Their teeth are to devour the souls of people with their mouth false teaching lies v 8. --------- Crowns are authority v 7, also symbolized as authority in Rev 12:3. -------- Their faces look like men because they are men, false teachers. Looking respectable (suits, fancy robes, money), but their lies kill your soul, keep you from finding salvation, Isa 9:15-16. ---- Their king is Satan v 11. That is they has the spirit of Satan over them, in them. That spirit of Satan says there is no God, Israel is not God's people, Jesus is not God's son, Man is God, the righteousness of men is greater than the righteous of God, worship the creation rather than the Creator and so on. Edited August 22, 2020 by abcdef typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted August 23, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/17/2020 at 7:24 PM, Revelation Man said: I don't think you can refute anything, that is your problem here sir. You know it is not refutable. It's easily refutable, and I have already refuted it, but just to expand on the point let's take a closer look. Revelation 12:5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. Now what we see in verse 5 is a representation of Christ's resurrection, where it states the child was caught up to God, the Greek word harpazo is used. And what follows that according to John? Revelation 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. So satan was thrown down to earth in 33 AD following the resurrection of Christ, and then He pursues the woman. Jesus spoke this just prior to His death and foretold the event was at hand. John 12:30 Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” Now when it comes to Petra we know quite a bit historically, for starters, Petra was the burial place of Aaron. According to historians and archaeologists, Petra was originally occupied by bedouins that descended from Edomites, but it was the Nabataeans that developed the city and it served as their capital city. It became wealthy because of its location midway between the Persian and Greek empires and thrived as a trade center in the region. Petra became historically known in 312 BC when the Greeks decided to attack the city, most likely to seize the wealth for themselves. The Greeks were defeated at that time and the Nabataeans would continue to rule Petra until 106 AD when the Romans took control of the area. Somewhere in between 33 AD and 106 AD, Petra became Christian, which has been discovered through numerous archaeological digs at the site. The temples within had been converted to a Christian theme, which prompted the Romans to burn them. The area is renowned for its flooding, which prompted the Nabataeans to develop one of the most sophisticated and impressive water systems ever discovered. Through a series of dams, cisterns, and aqueducts they devised a system that took in all the rainfall in the flood season and keep it constantly circulating so that even in the worst droughts they had water year round. This water system that they designed offers explanation to what we are told in Revelation regarding this passage. Revelation 12:15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. The entire water system was designed from the mountainous terrain itself, and made it so that the earth, literally swallowed up the flood waters. It also speaks to the fact that this ingenious plan for the system itself was divinely inspired. Petra suffered two major earthquakes, the first in 151 AD, which reportedly led to the collapse of half the city. The second major earthquake to hit Petra led to its demise, in 353 AD during the Byzantine period the quake was so massive that the water system was irreparably damaged and the city could no longer sustain life or keep the seasonal flood waters out. Petra was largely abandoned at this time, though the bedouins continued to use the area during the dry season, but Petra was lost to the world until the early 19th century when a Swiss traveler stumbled upon it. In 2007 UNESCO declared Petra to be one of the New 7 wonders of the world, and following that declaration the Jordanian government took control over the area, displacing the bedouins permanently. Today Petra is the largest tourist attraction in Jordan, but is only accessible at certain times of the year and only those cleared by the Jordanian government are permitted to visit the site. So, you see, Petra is no longer available in the 21st century, and it is no longer a livable area because of the constant flooding that continues to plague the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 23, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2020 19 hours ago, abcdef said: The death that men seek is to die to this world and become alive to God through Jesus. (Not physical death) This is shown in Rom. 6:1-11. This is the gospel message of the kingdom/church. ------- The false teacher scorpions (Isa 9:15-16) attack the broken branches and the Pentecost kingdom by using lies and confusion. The weapon of confusion against the gospel sword is shown in the sound of the chariot wheels in v 9. The great noise of these false teachers confuses and drowns out the loving gospel preaching. It's like preaching the gospel in a stadium of screaming fans who could care less about the gospel message of salvation, and even if they did, how could they find it, or hear it? Faith comes through hearing, but how can they hear, with the noise of the chariots? (Roman false teacher lies, the RCC is the only church, only the RCC church will be saved, all other churches are not Christians they are harlots, the RCC is exclusively Israel, the Bishop of Rome (BoR) is the Holy Father, sprinkling is immersion, original sin, etc, etc, etc, all designed by Satan to keep souls from salvation.) ------- The breastplates of iron Rev 9:9, covers their heart from the penetration from the gospel sword. The Christian breastplate is righteousness Eph 6:14, so the breastplate of these false teachers would be something like unrighteousness, or the lack of righteousness, that would cause their heart to harden against the loving gospel message. Also see that the iron may be associated with the iron nation legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2. ------- The long hair v 8 symbolizes their attachment to the spiritual realm, the evil "no love for Israel" side, the "destroy Israel" side, not God. Remember about the hair of Sampson, that his hair was attached to his power from God, in one way. ------- Their teeth are to devour the souls of people with their mouth false teaching lies v 8. --------- Crowns are authority v 7, also symbolized as authority in Rev 12:3. -------- Their faces look like men because they are men, false teachers. Looking respectable (suits, fancy robes, money), but their lies kill your soul, keep you from finding salvation, Isa 9:15-16. ---- Their king is Satan v 11. That is they has the spirit of Satan over them, in them. That spirit of Satan says there is no God, Israel is not God's people, Jesus is not God's son, Man is God, the righteousness of men is greater than the righteous of God, worship the creation rather than the Creator and so on. It is useless to continue with someone that sees everything as symbols. I hope your theories work out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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