PETER AND PAUL

[douge]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Furthermore, if we take the last verse as written then we have a transactional state of forgiveness: if we forgive others then we will be forgiven and if we  don't forgive others then neither will we be forgiven. That is a works-based forgiveness! That is a works-based salvation.

Yes it is, but not for justification unto eternal life.

Israel had to forgive as a condition to enter the kingdom on earth and be given authority to reign with Christ over the nations.

Israel received eternal life by believing on Jesus as Christ, the Son of God.

 

[douge]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

They were supposed to teach transactional forgiveness but they taught forgiveness of the nations at Christ's coming (no mention of transactionalism).  So... once again: the position asserted in the opening post isn't correct. Furthermore, Paul wrote, "Be kind and tender-hearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ your were forgiven," and "Forgive as the Lord forgave you." 

They preached both.

The nation would be forgiven by the blood of the new testament.

Individuals would enter the kingdom by obeying the commandments and the law.

Paul preached we have forgiveness now and therefore should forgive others.

[douge]

14 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I reject the Dispensational Premillennial view of dispensations and do not believe God has entirely separate purposes for the two audiences I mentioned. I do not believe you can prove the alternative without taking great liberties with scripture. 

Dispensations are in the Bible:

1 Corinthians 9:17

Ephesians 3:2

Colossians 1:25

[douge]

40 minutes ago, Josheb said:

My op-reply was limited to the matter of forgiveness, not the "earthly kingdom." I'll attend to the rest of the op as inclination and time permit. Otherwise my two posts are very specific and limited in scope and neither has anything to do with an earthly kingdom so I do not know why you bring it up, think I will simply ignore the irrelevance and discard what I posted to discuss your agenda, or think I find that collaborative in any way.

I did address forgiveness,,,,

"Yes it is, but not for justification unto eternal life.

Israel had to forgive as a condition to enter the kingdom on earth and be given authority to reign with Christ over the nations.

Israel received eternal life by believing on Jesus as Christ, the Son of God."

forgiveness was a requirement to enter the earthly kingdom for Israel

[douge]

43 minutes ago, Josheb said:

So if we're going to discuss this op, douge, then do so with what I bring to the op - in its specifics and limits.

Peter affirmed Paul's writings. Can you agree with that?

Peter said Paul's wisdom was given to him by God. Can you agree with that? 

Peter said some of the things Paul wrote are hard to understand. Can you agree with that? 

Peter said some folks distort what Paul wrote. Can you agree with that? 

Peter wrote those who distort what Paul wrote are unlearned and unstable. Can you agree with that? 

Peter did not give specifics from Paul's writings but what Peter is writing about when he mentions Paul is the coming of the Lord. Can you agree with that? 

While writing of the coming of the Lord, Peter in this epistle states his audience can expect things in the last days. Can you agree with that? 

The author of Hebrews (Heb. 1:2), James (Jms. 5:3), and Peter (2 Pet. 3:3) all agreed their audience should expect certain things to happen in the last days. Can you agree?

In his first epistle Peter stated they were living in the end times and it was during the end times in which he and his readers were living that was those last times (1 Pet. 1:20). Can you agree with this? 

None of it can be found to conflict with what Paul wrote. Do you agree?

 

Ten questions that can and should be answered with a simple and plain, "Yes," or "No." Do please feel free to add relevant comment, but not at the expensive of answering the questions asked. 

So if we're going to discuss this op, douge, then do so with what I bring to the op - in its specifics and limits.

Peter affirmed Paul's writings. Can you agree with that? Yes

Peter said Paul's wisdom was given to him by God. Can you agree with that? Yes

Peter said some of the things Paul wrote are hard to understand. Can you agree with that? Yes

Peter said some folks distort what Paul wrote. Can you agree with that? Yes

Peter wrote those who distort what Paul wrote are unlearned and unstable. Can you agree with that? Yes

Peter did not give specifics from Paul's writings but what Peter is writing about when he mentions Paul is the coming of the Lord. Can you agree with that? Yes, but delayed so Gentiles could believe to provoke Israel to jealousy.

While writing of the coming of the Lord, Peter in this epistle states his audience can expect things in the last days. Can you agree with that? Yes

The author of Hebrews (Heb. 1:2), James (Jms. 5:3), and Peter (2 Pet. 3:3) all agreed their audience should expect certain things to happen in the last days. Can you agree? Yes

In his first epistle Peter stated they were living in the end times and it was during the end times in which he and his readers were living that was those last times (1 Pet. 1:20). Can you agree with this? Yes, but future.

None of it can be found to conflict with what Paul wrote. Do you agree?

 

Ten questions that can and should be answered with a simple and plain, "Yes," or "No." Do please feel free to add relevant comment, but not at the expensive of answering the questions asked. 

[douge]

18 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Then you should ammend the op to more accurately reflect what the text does say and not take liberties with scripture. 

This was not translating scripture, it was commentary.

[douge]

23 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Who is the "you" in that verse, douge? It is NOT old covenant Jews! It is new covenant Jews

Peter was speaking to unrepentant Israel.

[douge]

34 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The Greek word you read as "nations" in verse 25 is "patriai." It means families, not nations. 

In Acts 3:25 Israel would be a blessing to the nations, or kindreds

I was referring to Acts 3:19 when the nation of Israel would be forgiven.

[douge]

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The problem with your claim of the future is that Paul specifically states, "at the present time," NOT "In the far distant future 21 centuries from now."

Paul was speaking of the Gentiles who were part of the remnant of Israel, before the body of Christ

[douge]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The passage says otherwise. He was not speaking to a nation. Peter was speaking to a large group of Jews who had gathered for the Pentecost rituals and some of them heard and understood what he was saying and others heard the ramblings of those who'd been drinking wine. The text explains all this. Why are you adding to what is written? 

Seriously: Why? Why are you adding to what is written? 

Peter admonished them to repent