Why can’t the CHURCH be in part of the 70th week?

[The Light]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Go ahead on, just IGNORE time! You amaze me!

Not sure what time you think I am ignoring. Pray tell.

[iamlamad]

26 minutes ago, The Light said:

Not sure what time you think I am ignoring. Pray tell.

Just flip almost any page in Revelation, or read from one chapter to another: TIME Passes. 

You will probably need more: from Rev. 8:1 to Rev. 16:17 is 2520 days.
From Rev. 8:1  to Rev. 11:15 is 1260 days. 

[The Light]

29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Just flip almost any page in Revelation, or read from one chapter to another: TIME Passes. 

You will probably need more: from Rev. 8:1 to Rev. 16:17 is 2520 days.
From Rev. 8:1  to Rev. 11:15 is 1260 days. 

Yep time passes. Then when the 7th trump is blown in Rev 11, the wrath of God is over. Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the 6 seals.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, The Light said:

Yep time passes. Then when the 7th trump is blown in Rev 11, the wrath of God is over. Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the 6 seals.

You seem to dwell on myths. My guess is, when you arrive in heaven, you will need a lot of teaching to get caught up.
ANY theory that rearranges Revelation will be proven wrong. Count on it! You can take it to the bank.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You seem to dwell on myths. My guess is, when you arrive in heaven, you will need a lot of teaching to get caught up.
ANY theory that rearranges Revelation will be proven wrong. Count on it! You can take it to the bank.

How many floods are there in Genesis 7?

Gen 7

7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

² Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

³ Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

⁴ For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

⁵ And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

⁶ And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

⁷ And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

⁸ Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

¹¹ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

¹⁴ They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

¹⁵ And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

¹⁶ And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

¹⁷ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

If you don't understand that you are getting a different version of the same story, you are going to see lots of floods. That is why you see so many great tribulations. There is only one great tribulation and there is only one worldwide flood.

Revelation is written in the same way. I am not rearranging anything. I am merely understanding what the Word says. What happens when the 7th trumpet begins to sound?

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

We see that the mystery of God is finished when the 7th trumpet begins to sound. Let's check the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

We see at the 7th trumpet that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

How many times you think that the mystery of God is finished. How many times do the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord?

How many times does Noah enter the ark with all the animals.

I'm not sure why you cannot see what is obvious. Like I told you before, I guess the book is sealed to you and you cannot see, just like the Jews have had their eyes blinded and cannot see the Messiah.

 

 

[iamlamad]

33 minutes ago, The Light said:

How many floods are there in Genesis 7?

Gen 7

7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

² Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

³ Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

⁴ For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

⁵ And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

⁶ And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

⁷ And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

⁸ Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

¹¹ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

¹⁴ They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

¹⁵ And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

¹⁶ And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

¹⁷ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

If you don't understand that you are getting a different version of the same story, you are going to see lots of floods. That is why you see so many great tribulations. There is only one great tribulation and there is only one worldwide flood.

Revelation is written in the same way. I am not rearranging anything. I am merely understanding what the Word says. What happens when the 7th trumpet begins to sound?

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

We see that the mystery of God is finished when the 7th trumpet begins to sound. Let's check the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

We see at the 7th trumpet that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

How many times you think that the mystery of God is finished. How many times do the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord?

How many times does Noah enter the ark with all the animals.

I'm not sure why you cannot see what is obvious. Like I told you before, I guess the book is sealed to you and you cannot see, just like the Jews have had their eyes blinded and cannot see the Messiah.

How many floods are there in Genesis 7?  Find any verse anywhere that ties the flood of Genesis to Revelation.

If you don't understand that you are getting a different version of the same story, you are going to see lots of floods.  You are comparing apples to oranges. Find any verse anywhere that ties the flood of Genesis to days of GT.

That is why you see so many great tribulations. MYTH: The bible mentions more than one, and logic proves another.

Revelation is written in the same way. I am not rearranging anything. Myth and imagination. Revelation is chronological. 

How many times you think that the mystery of God is finished.  Which mystery? There are several. But only one involving how Satan became the god and prince  of this world.

How many times do the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord?  Twice, first, when they were created, and then again at the 7th trumpet. 

Hold your character discussions until after we get to heaven and you find out the truth. 

How many times in our future will there be cosmic signs in the sun and moon - as prophesied in the bible?

[The Light]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

How many floods are there in Genesis 7?  Find any verse anywhere that ties the flood of Genesis to Revelation.

If you don't understand that you are getting a different version of the same story, you are going to see lots of floods.  You are comparing apples to oranges. Find any verse anywhere that ties the flood of Genesis to days of GT.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with whether grape nuts taste like lug nuts.

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

That is why you see so many great tribulations. MYTH: The bible mentions more than one, and logic proves another.

As usual, you have a logic problem. How is it possible for Matt 24:21 to happen more than once?????????????

Matt 24

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Revelation is written in the same way. I am not rearranging anything. Myth and imagination. Revelation is chronological. 

You thinking that proves your TOTAL CONFUSION.

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

How many times you think that the mystery of God is finished.  Which mystery? There are several. But only one involving how Satan became the god and prince  of this world.

Which mystery? The one being talked about.

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

How many times do the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord?  Twice, first, when they were created, and then again at the 7th trumpet. 

Hold your character discussions until after we get to heaven and you find out the truth. 

How many times in our future will there be cosmic signs in the sun and moon - as prophesied in the bible?

I already know whats going to happen. It's in the Bible. Just read what it says and leave your imagination out of it.

Sun, moon, AND STARS.

[Dennis1209]

On 9/2/2020 at 10:13 PM, Spock said:

This question is for all my pre trib friends.  I really want to believe in the pre trib doctrine, but I need a few questions answered. This is a big one.

I hear so many pre tribbers say Daniels 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is only meant for Israel and Daniel’s people (Jews).  And they rightfully cite Daniel 9:24, which says....“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression and to put an end totsin,...”

Okay, I get that, I really do.....but, where does it say in the Word that the Church can’t also be involved in even a  part of this 490 years?  Jew and Gentile together is not uncommon, is it? Obviously, the only chance they can be intermingled with Jews is in the last week, week 70, seeing that week 69 ended at probably Jesus’ baptism (when he was anointed).  
 

Pre tribbers say the rapture has to occur BEFORE the week begins......but all I want is some solid confirmation not from what you think but from what is written. Show me why this is so!  
 

Consider this...do you believe the New Covenant was written for the Church? Most do believe such to be so, but look at what Jeremiah says in Jeremiah 31....“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD:”

So, even though Jeremiah said the New Covenant was for Israel, many in the church believe it is also for them. So why can’t the Church also be present And intermingled with Jews in at least some part of the first half of Daniel’s 70th week... Before the Great Tribulation begins?  Also, most agree we are presently in the CHURCH AGE from the time Christ ascended till now, right?  But the last time I looked out my window or drive down the street, I see plenty of Jews everywhere. Jew+Gentile intermingling during the Church Age.  So again, why can’t Jew +Gentile intermingle a little in Daniel’s 70th week? 

If you believe there are other reasons the church can’t be in the first half of the week, for now, please disregard these other reasons because i just want to know, do you believe the church can’t be in any part of Daniels week because it is only for Israel and Jews, and not the church....and on what basis do you hold this belief? 
 

thanks for replying. I’m watching and excited to learn,

spock 

Hello Spock!

Obviously all five views of when the Rapture occurs can't be correct. I could write pages and supporting scripture on my view of a pre tribulation Rapture but, it's generally a waste of time trying to impose a personal hermeneutic view. I admire a great Christian named Kent Hovind and frequently watch him on Youtube. He's one of the most knowledgeable on creation and the great flood I've ever watched. Not long ago, he switched his life long pre-tribulationist view to, post tribulation, and is adamant about it. That doesn't make him my enemy and someone to avoid or shun; he's still my brother in Christ and we only have a difference of view of a secondary theological interpretation. 

Currently Satan is the god of this world, the rain falls on the just and unjust. We are appointed to tribulation on this earth but, not THE tribulation.

Romans 5:3 (KJV) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Revelation 1:9 (KJV) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [emphasis added]

What is the Apostle Paul talking about to take comfort in 1 Thessalonians 4:? 

1 Thessalonians 4:18 (KJV) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

And lastly to make this very brief; the Rapture is symbolic of a traditional Jewish wedding procedure and feast. Every step of the way from the betrothal through the son building an addition to the father's house, and the father telling his son it is now finished, go and fetch your bride, mirrors the description of the Rapture in the Bible. It makes absolutely no sense for the Bridegroom to abuse and beat up His bride right before the wedding. 

The Bible makes clear to me the reason for the tribulation and who's involved. The church is mentioned 19 times in Revelation chapters 1-3; and is not mentioned again until the end of the book. When a door in Heaven opened at the beginning of Revelation 4: and John was caught up [symbolic of the church and twenty-four elders]. 

See, I did keep this short 

[Charlie744]

In many previous responses I have mentioned that I have yet to study Revelation... and that is still true, however I don’t think it may be necessary to complete Revelation to offer a comment on this topic.

 If I understand the issue here, many are asking if the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31) is written for “the church”, and I am assuming this means “the Gentiles”.

This is a little confusing to me. 

1) I don’t have the Bible verse at hand but I believe it is clear that “the Church” does NOT mean the Church of the Gentiles. In the OT, the “Church” was established (at least) in the time of Israel. There is no difference between a Church and a Synogogue. 

2) It seems to me that God chose Abraham and his descendants to bring in the One True God to the human race- to ALL peoples, but He would fulfill this mission through the Jews. The Jews were to be the priests to the rest of the world... consequently, the “Church” was already established with priests, with the Scriptures or message to be offered, and to the congregation (Gentiles). Therefore we should not view the Church as being established at Pentecost (and the beginning of the Christian Church), or there is a “separation” between Jew and Gentile.  God certainly established a structure of teacher and students (Jews and Gentiles), but not Jews and Church— that is a divisive tool of Satan. 

3) There is also might be some discussion on God’s selection of Joseph’s two sons- Ephraim and Manasseh- they were to share equally in Jacob’s inheritance. 

4) Personally, and not to be argumentative, I do not believe we should consider that a “Christian Church” was ever meant to be established at Pentecost or any other day after the crucifixion. 

The Messiah came to fulfill His mission as written in His Scriptures. The crucifixion was NOT ever meant to divide mankind between Jews and Gentiles, but ONLY between those who would believe Jesus as the Messiah and His Word and everyone else. The “Church” would still have the same structure; Paul, the Apostles and the 120 believers (teachers) would go throughout the world and the “congregation” would still be the Gentiles. But this “Church” would also be separated by mankind with all sorts of different labels, names and then denominations. 

So there is ONLY ONE Church- the one established by God through Abraham; no separation between Jews and Gentiles, Christian and Jews, etc. - that is man’s doing for power, corruption and pride.

The ONLY separation should be between believers in Jesus and those that do not!

Getting back to the question of does the New Covenant include the Gentiles or just the Jews... there can only be one response: If you believe in the Messiah, you are a son of Abraham and the New Covenant. The New Covenant is His Covenant for ALl who believes in Him, whether the “teachers” come entirely from the Jews (originally intended), or from Jews who would accept Jesus as their Messiah or by the Gentiles who would accept Jesus as their Messiah. 

The Jews kept the One True God to themselves instead of teaching the world (Gentiles) about Him. They were not successful in their God given mission. Further, most refused to accept THEIR Messiah when He came to the earth. Corporately, they failed, but  God would not fail and He would ensure success by sending His Holy Spirit as the perfect, infallible and all knowing teacher to ANYONE or EVERYONE who wishes to hear!

Charlie

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Has nothing whatsoever to do with whether grape nuts taste like lug nuts.

As usual, you have a logic problem. How is it possible for Matt 24:21 to happen more than once?????????????

Matt 24

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

You thinking that proves your TOTAL CONFUSION.

Which mystery? The one being talked about.

I already know whats going to happen. It's in the Bible. Just read what it says and leave your imagination out of it.

Sun, moon, AND STARS.

How is it possible for Matt 24:21 to happen more than once????????????? Did you just overlook that the GT in Matthew 24 is GREATER than any other? Do you find that in the GT in chapter 2 or chapter 7? No, you don't. There are different verses showing us different days of GT, but ONLY THOSE AFTER THE ABOMINATION will be days of GT greater than any other. In other words, because John used GT in other chapters and other verses, backed by  the Holy Spirit, Jesus had to ADD MORE WORDS to the days of GT He was talking about - they were be greater than any in the past (meaning there WAS other days of GT in the past) and greater than any in the future. 

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Why would Jesus have to add more words, "since the beginning of he world" unless there were OTHER days of GT different than these? I think you need to read these verses a little more closely. 

Which mystery? The one being talked about.  The bible speaks of SEVERAL. Is it one of Paul's mysteries or is it a new mystery?

Sun, moon, AND STARS.  Yes. the first sign  - for the DAY - both the sun and moon must be visible. But for the next sign, over 7 years later, neither the sun or the moon will be visible, and not even the stars: TWO DIFFERENT signs for TWO DIFFERENT purposes. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by iamlamad