Why can’t the CHURCH be in part of the 70th week?

[Spock]

This question is for all my pre trib friends.  I really want to believe in the pre trib doctrine, but I need a few questions answered. This is a big one.

I hear so many pre tribbers say Daniels 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is only meant for Israel and Daniel’s people (Jews).  And they rightfully cite Daniel 9:24, which says....“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression and to put an end totsin,...”

Okay, I get that, I really do.....but, where does it say in the Word that the Church can’t also be involved in even a  part of this 490 years?  Jew and Gentile together is not uncommon, is it? Obviously, the only chance they can be intermingled with Jews is in the last week, week 70, seeing that week 69 ended at probably Jesus’ baptism (when he was anointed).  
 

Pre tribbers say the rapture has to occur BEFORE the week begins......but all I want is some solid confirmation not from what you think but from what is written. Show me why this is so!  
 

Consider this...do you believe the New Covenant was written for the Church? Most do believe such to be so, but look at what Jeremiah says in Jeremiah 31....“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD:”

So, even though Jeremiah said the New Covenant was for Israel, many in the church believe it is also for them. So why can’t the Church also be present And intermingled with Jews in at least some part of the first half of Daniel’s 70th week... Before the Great Tribulation begins?  Also, most agree we are presently in the CHURCH AGE from the time Christ ascended till now, right?  But the last time I looked out my window or drive down the street, I see plenty of Jews everywhere. Jew+Gentile intermingling during the Church Age.  So again, why can’t Jew +Gentile intermingle a little in Daniel’s 70th week? 

If you believe there are other reasons the church can’t be in the first half of the week, for now, please disregard these other reasons because i just want to know, do you believe the church can’t be in any part of Daniels week because it is only for Israel and Jews, and not the church....and on what basis do you hold this belief? 
 

thanks for replying. I’m watching and excited to learn,

spock 

[Charlie744]

Well, I am fairly certain you are aware of my opinion on Daniel’s 70 weeks or 490 years of his prophecy; that all 70 weeks were indeed completed with the most important week, the last week beginning at His Baptism. Despite His crucifixion in the midst of the week, He indeed fulfilled ALL the 6 requirements identified in chapter 9.

Regardless of one’s interpretation of 9:27, there really should not be any need to distinguish between Jew and Gentile- NT clearly tells us that God sacrificed His life for ALL who believed in Him. The New Covenant applies to ALL. 

At the end times there will be only two groups( those that have put their trust and salvation in Jesus and those that did not! God is not interested in one’s ancestry or religion.

Although both Jew and Gentile will inherit the Kingdom of God, it will be because of their faith in Jesus. But there is one important thing the Jews are yet to accomplish; that Jesus will return when the Jews recognize that He was indeed the One they have pierced.

 Thanks, Charlie 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Regardless of one’s interpretation of 9:27, there really should not be any need to distinguish between Jew and Gentile- NT clearly tells us that God sacrificed His life for ALL who believed in Him. The New Covenant applies to ALL. 

At the end times there will be only two groups( those that have put their trust and salvation in Jesus and those that did not! God is not interested in one’s ancestry or religion.

Although both Jew and Gentile will inherit the Kingdom of God, it will be because of their faith in Jesus. But there is one important thing the Jews are yet to accomplish; that Jesus will return when the Jews recognize that He was indeed the One they have pierced.

 Thanks, Charlie 

[The Light]

Without using anything beyond the these scriptures you should be able to tell that the 70 weeks are not completed. Simple logic should tell you, Mr. Spock..

Dan 9

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[Spock]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:01 AM, The Light said:

Without using anything beyond the these scriptures you should be able to tell that the 70 weeks are not completed. Simple logic should tell you, Mr. Spock..

Dan 9

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Although some here, Charlie, Diaste, and Retro to name a few, believe the 70 weeks have run their course, I’ve never thrown my hat in that arena. 
 

However, I’m still waiting for someone, probably a pre tribber, to show me why the CHURCH can’t be in this final week.  I’m a bit surprised not to see my pre trib brothers like iamlamad, RevMan, Dennis, muffett (sister), et el, rising up to answer my question. Hopefully someone will.....it’s not like I’m looking for a debate either.....I just want this issue fully resolved in my thinking. I need to see what they base their thinking on (church can’t be in Daniel’s week, only for Jews). 
 

Lastly, if you are one who in particular doesn’t believe the 70th week has played out and agree that it is not necessary or mandatory for Jews and The church to be separated during Daniels 70th week, please state such. That helps too. 
 

spock

[The Light]

21 hours ago, Spock said:

Although some here, Charlie, Diaste, and Retro to name a few, believe the 70 weeks have run their course, I’ve never thrown my hat in that arena. 

With no additional information we can prove from Dan 9 that that is not true.

 

Quote

However, I’m still waiting for someone, probably a pre tribber, to show me why the CHURCH can’t be in this final week.  I’m a bit surprised not to see my pre trib brothers like iamlamad, RevMan, Dennis, muffett (sister), et el, rising up to answer my question. Hopefully someone will.....it’s like I’m looking for a debate either.....I just want this issue fully resolved in my thinking. I need to see what they base their thinking on (church can’t be in Daniel’s week, only for Jews). 

Logic Mr. Spock. How would it be possible for Jesus to come in an hour that we think not if He shows us when He is  coming? His coming for the Church is not going to be crystal clear. It can't be. Is the Church mentioned in Revelation after the come up hither in Rev 4, outside of the marriage supper and the return with the Lord in Rev 19. That is certainly not proof that the Church is no longer on the earth, but it must be considered with all the other information that we can gather. Do we see 24 elders in heaven dressed in white raiment and with gold crown in Rev 4. Do they appear to be speaking for the kings and priests in heaven in Rev 5. Are we told that we can escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass in Matt 24? Does Matt 24 line up perfectly with Rev 6, meaning all these things are the are the 1st 5 seals. Does the fig tree have two harvests. Are we told there will be more than one day of the son of man when He will come as lightning. The lie, alien abductions, is already in place to explain the disappearance when Jesus comes in SECRET. One coming will be like the days of Noah LIKEWISE ALSO, one coming will be like the days of Lot. One coming, the Lord Himself will come at the trump of God. One coming, he will send His angels at the last trump. There is just so much information that He is coming more than one time prior to His return with His armies to set up His kingdom.

 

Quote

Lastly, if you are one who in particular doesn’t believe the 70th week has played out and agree that it is not necessary or mandatory for Jews and The church to be separated during Daniels 70th week, please state such. That helps too. 
 

spock

God's Word says that the part of Israel will not have it's blindness removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That is a requirement. Therefore I believe the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That said, if you study the harvest in the Bible, there are gleanings left in the field for the poor and the stranger.

Edited September 4, 2020 by The Light

[Spock]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

 

God's Word says that the part of Israel will not have it's blindness removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That is a requirement. Therefore I believe the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That said, if you study the harvest in the Bible, there are gleanings left in the field for the poor and the stranger.

Thanks for contributing here. Finally a pre tribber with something to offer....

So, it appears your scripture to support church not being in Daniel’s 70th week is this....Romans 11:25-27

25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:d a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

My take of this passage: Firstly, what exactly does it mean when Paul says, “the fullness of the Gentiles comes in?”  when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, I’m thinking when everyone in the church is now accounted for, then God will remove the blinders. But, when is the fullness? How do we know when that is?  I don’t think we can just say it is before Daniels 70th week begins. Why can’t it be full just before the abomination of desolation? Or some other time?  This passage is not totally definitive to me. What is your interpretation here? 

[Spock]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

 

Logic Mr. Spock. How would it be possible for Jesus to come in an hour that we think not if He shows us when He is  coming? His coming for the Church is not going to be crystal clear. It can't be. Is the Church mentioned in Revelation after the come up hither in Rev 4, outside of the marriage supper and the return with the Lord in Rev 19. That is certainly not proof that the Church is no longer on the earth, but it must be considered with all the other information that we can gather. Do we see 24 elders in heaven dressed in white raiment and with gold crown in Rev 4. Do they appear to be speaking for the kings and priests in heaven in Rev 5. Are we told that we can escape ALL THE THINGS that will come to pass in Matt 24? Does Matt 24 line up perfectly with Rev 6, meaning all these things are the are the 1st 5 seals. Does the fig tree have two harvests. Are we told there will be more than one day of the son of man when He will come as lightning. The lie, alien abductions, is already in place to explain the disappearance when Jesus comes in SECRET. One coming will be like the days of Noah LIKEWISE ALSO, one coming will be like the days of Lot. One coming, the Lord Himself will come at the trump of God. One coming, he will send His angels at the last trump. There is just so much information that He is coming more than one time prior to His return with His armies to set up His kingdom.

 

 

It’s true, the word church vanishes after chapter 3, but what about the word “saints.”  That hasn’t vanished . Cant the church also be called saints? 
 

And who are these people from Rev 12?

17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stoodc on the sand of the sea.

By the way, do you believe in more than one rapture ?  By that I mean LIVING people caught up and changed to immortal in a twinkling of an eye? If so, how does this play out? 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I'd like to know why the church can't be part of the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Christ? 

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I'd like to know why the church can't be part of the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Christ? 

Hey, don’t add confusion and misdirection to my thread. Start your own thread if you want that question answered. ?