iamlamad Posted December 30, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.05 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, The Light said: I missed the part where anything was rearranged. The wrath of God is over in Rev 11. Rev 11 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. What is seen in Rev 10 confirms it. Rev 10 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. That is the end of the story. Want to see more information about the story, start reading Rev 14. That takes you back to the seals. At the 5th seal, we see the great tribulation. Rev 6 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Here is the great tribulation in Rev 14 Rev 14 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. So, no rearrangement. Just understanding that the story is over in Rev 11 (the mystery of God as declared by the prophets is finished.) Then you get another view of the same story in starting in Rev 14. Rev. 11 indeed fulfills what was said in Rev 10. That is why 10 comes before 11, in order. Quote start reading Rev 14. That takes you back to the seals. At the 5th seal This is myth and rearranging. At the time of Rev. 14, shortly after the midpoint of the week, the seals are finished. They were finished in the first verse of chapter 8 with the opening of the 7th seal. At that time the BOOK is opened to reveal the 70th week. There is no "takes you back" in Revelation: that is myth. Quote Here is the great tribulation in Rev 14 Finally, one sentence I can almost agree with. It is the START of the days of GT. Those days continue to chapter 16. You are zeroed in - as if with a laser beam - on the text in chapter 7 that says "these are those that came out of great tribulation" - not understanding that here John and the Holy Spirit are calling the entire church age as "great tribulation, and not understanding that the days of GT Jesus spoke about will not begin until chapter 14. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted December 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,115 Content Per Day: 1.10 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, iamlamad said: Quote Rev. 11 indeed fulfills what was said in Rev 10. That is why 10 comes before 11, in order. Hey that's great. Now try reading what is said. No need to imagine. Quote This is myth and rearranging. At the time of Rev. 14, shortly after the midpoint of the week, the seals are finished. They were finished in the first verse of chapter 8 with the opening of the 7th seal. At that time the BOOK is opened to reveal the 70th week. There is no "takes you back" in Revelation: that is myth. LOL. Ummm. Hmmm. The seals are opened and the 70th week begins. The 70th week is over at the 6th seal and the Day of the Lord begins when the 1st trumpet is blown. The wrath of God is over when the 7th trumpet is blown. At that time the mystery of God is finished. Your inability to understand what that means explains everything. Quote You are zeroed in - as if with a laser beam - on the text in chapter 7 that says "these are those that came out of great tribulation" - not understanding that here John and the Holy Spirit are calling the entire church age as "great tribulation, and not understanding that the days of GT Jesus spoke about will not begin until chapter 14. . It says what it says. Scripture can speak for itself. Try accepting the Word without inputting your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,655 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 2,380 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2020 21 hours ago, iamlamad said: You say that because you don't know where "the trib" is in Revelation, of where the rapture is to compare with "the trib." The understanding of this is not through pretrib protocol. The last week is the time frame in which everything occurs. GT is a time within the last week, not the entire last week. The wrath of God is another time period within the last week and is neither the last week nor GT. GT begins only after the A of D as clearly spoken by Jesus in Matt 24. The rapture is only after GT and the Signs of Jesus coming and the mourning of the tribes of earth as spoken by Jesus in Matt 24 and in Rev 6. The rapture, the signs and Jesus appearance only occur at the 7th trump, per Rev 11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted December 31, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,298 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2020 A 7 year tribulation? Well, there is no such thing. There is, however, a 70th week and a 3 1/2 year tribulation. And the 3 1/2 year "GREAT" tribulation will be cut short by God for the sake of the elect, the Church. It will be cut short by approx. ONE year, the year of God's Wrath. There are 3 references in Isaiah..... 34:8.... 61:2.... 63:4-6.... to the year long Wrath of God. The Lord alone will be exalted in that Day.....the Day of the Lord, which begins on a day and lasts a year. Satan will have had his time in the great tribulation, now it's God's time. And He ALONE will be exalted...... Isa 2:11-12, 19-22 Look at the word "GREAT". I don't believe it's just great in intensity, though it will certainly be intense for the people of God and the Jewish people. The word "GREAT" is ...... megas. It literally means "big....literally or figuratively, in a very wide application. In other words, it will be "widespread". The Great Tribulation will be a widespread tribulation, encompassing most of the globe. How could it be any more intense than what our brothers and sisters endured in the past?.....and are enduring in times present? They were sawn in two, they were wrapped in animal skins and fed to the lions, babies were bashed against stone walls, people were dipped in wax and set on fire to light up Nero's garden......they were bludgeoned to death, boiled in oil, women had their babies cut out of them, they were crucified, beheaded, raped .........etc More intense than this? ................. No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.05 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2021 11 hours ago, Diaste said: The understanding of this is not through pretrib protocol. The last week is the time frame in which everything occurs. GT is a time within the last week, not the entire last week. The wrath of God is another time period within the last week and is neither the last week nor GT. GT begins only after the A of D as clearly spoken by Jesus in Matt 24. The rapture is only after GT and the Signs of Jesus coming and the mourning of the tribes of earth as spoken by Jesus in Matt 24 and in Rev 6. The rapture, the signs and Jesus appearance only occur at the 7th trump, per Rev 11. Just so you will know: The rapture will take place just before the start of Wrath, according to Paul and in Revelation the start of wrath is announced at the 6th seal. It is no mistake then that John saw the raptured church in heaven in chapter 7, right after the 6th seal event. In comparison, the 70th week begins at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment. This is so simple; all we have to do is follow John's chronology and BELIEVE it. That is the rub: most think they have a better plan that God. Go figure. God made this SO EASY: He marked the 70th week or "the trib" as many call it, with 7's: The 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. How could it be any easier? You are mistaken: "everything" does not happen in the last week: the last week is all wrath and we are out of here before wrath. Please take note: the great crowd too large to number was seen in chapter 7, before any "tribulation." For those that disagree: if you wish to be left behind, just tell God! I think He will give you the desire of your heart. Just know, it is going to be tough, for you will be out of the perfect will of God and will be overcome. For those that choose this path - be of good cheer: your fellow believers who were also left behind begin to show up in heaven in Rev. 15. You may well be among them. But HOW MUCH BETTER to be in that group too large to number, seen in heaven before any wrath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.05 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2021 8 hours ago, JoeCanada said: A 7 year tribulation? Well, there is no such thing. There is, however, a 70th week and a 3 1/2 year tribulation. And the 3 1/2 year "GREAT" tribulation will be cut short by God for the sake of the elect, the Church. It will be cut short by approx. ONE year, the year of God's Wrath. There are 3 references in Isaiah..... 34:8.... 61:2.... 63:4-6.... to the year long Wrath of God. The Lord alone will be exalted in that Day.....the Day of the Lord, which begins on a day and lasts a year. Satan will have had his time in the great tribulation, now it's God's time. And He ALONE will be exalted...... Isa 2:11-12, 19-22 Look at the word "GREAT". I don't believe it's just great in intensity, though it will certainly be intense for the people of God and the Jewish people. The word "GREAT" is ...... megas. It literally means "big....literally or figuratively, in a very wide application. In other words, it will be "widespread". The Great Tribulation will be a widespread tribulation, encompassing most of the globe. How could it be any more intense than what our brothers and sisters endured in the past?.....and are enduring in times present? They were sawn in two, they were wrapped in animal skins and fed to the lions, babies were bashed against stone walls, people were dipped in wax and set on fire to light up Nero's garden......they were bludgeoned to death, boiled in oil, women had their babies cut out of them, they were crucified, beheaded, raped .........etc More intense than this? ................. No! For those left behind - imagine being a jew hiding in Berlin in 1943. Your chances of escaping is just about ZERO. But this time it will be around the world, with very few or no places to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted January 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.05 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2021 On 12/30/2020 at 2:15 PM, The Light said: Try accepting the Word without inputting your imagination. You mean like noticing that the days of GT will be CAUSED by the two Beasts of chapter 13, and by their creating an image and a mark, and they will be enforced with the threat of losing one's head? John is quite clear, the days of GT will come AFTER the two beasts come to power, and they come to power in chapter 13. Or do you mean the first verses of chapter 15, showing the first martyrs from the great tribulation of these two beasts beginning to show up in heaven. The point: you imaging the days of GT in the seals. John knows the days of GT will only begin in chapter 15. You are many chapters from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted January 1, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,115 Content Per Day: 1.10 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2021 16 hours ago, iamlamad said: You mean like noticing that the days of GT will be CAUSED by the two Beasts of chapter 13, and by their creating an image and a mark, and they will be enforced with the threat of losing one's head? John is quite clear, the days of GT will come AFTER the two beasts come to power, and they come to power in chapter 13. Or do you mean the first verses of chapter 15, showing the first martyrs from the great tribulation of these two beasts beginning to show up in heaven. The point: you imaging the days of GT in the seals. John knows the days of GT will only begin in chapter 15. You are many chapters from the truth. I'm not sure how many examples I need to post or explanations that I need to give before you are able to understand that the wrath is over at the end of Revelation 11. What you see in Revelation 13 occurs during the seals. What you see in Rev 14 occurs during the seals. How many great tribulations do you think there are? If you would only just read what the word says and believe it, everything falls into place perfectly. When the angel begins to blow the 7th trump, the mystery of God is finished. The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord. THE WRATH OF GOD IS OVER. Just believe what the word says. It's so simple. No imagination is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 2, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,655 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 2,380 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) On 12/31/2020 at 5:28 PM, iamlamad said: Just so you will know: The rapture will take place just before the start of Wrath, according to Paul and in Revelation the start of wrath is announced at the 6th seal. It is no mistake then that John saw the raptured church in heaven in chapter 7, right after the 6th seal event. Correct!! Quote In comparison, the 70th week begins at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment. This is so simple; all we have to do is follow John's chronology and BELIEVE it. Incorrect!! Joel tells us the all the trees are burned and all the green grass is gone and the waters are undrinkable at the time the meat and drink offering are cut off from the house of God, before the Day of the Lord. This alone says the trumps are sounding before the Lord's return and some have sounded by the time of the A of D. Excerpts from Joel 1: "Grain and drink offerings have been cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests are in mourning, those who minister before the LORD. 10The field is ruined; the land mourns. For the grain is destroyed, the new wine is dried up, and the oil fails. 11Be dismayed, O farmers, wail, O vinedressers, over the wheat and barley, because the harvest of the field has perished. 12The grapevine is dried up, and the fig tree is withered; the pomegranate, palm, and apple—all the trees of the orchard—are withered." In this cohesive vision of the word of the Lord we see the A of D has occurred and the 1st trump has sounded. 1st Trump "Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass" All grains are grasses. You didn't think Joel was talking about suburban lawns, did you? Then Joel goes on to say the Day of the Lord is: "Alas for the day! For the Day of the LORD is near, and it will come as destruction from the Almighty." So according to the word of the Lord as it came to Joel who faithfully recorded the truth of God's word the 1st trump has sounded by the time of the A of D and we have not yet reached the Day of the Lord in the timeline. "To You, O LORD, I call, for fire has consumed the open pastures and flames have scorched all the trees of the field. 20Even the beasts of the field pant for You, for the streams of water have dried up, and fire has consumed the open pastures." This last bit is still before the Day of the Lord and after the A of D and looks a great deal like 2 trumps: 1st Trump "Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass" 3rd Trump "Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter like wormwood oil, and many people died from the bitter waters." This fits well with the order as previously described: The 70th week is the time frame in which everything in the Revelation occurs. GT is a period of time within the 70th week and is never likened to the entire 7 years. Jesus said GT begins AFTER THE A OF D. The wrath of God is another time period in the 70th week that begins after both the A of D and GT; and is never likened to the entire 70th week. 70th week ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----Beginning of sorrows-----[A of D]--------GT-----------[---Wrath---] Quote That is the rub: most think they have a better plan that God. Go figure. God made this SO EASY: He marked the 70th week or "the trib" as many call it, with 7's: The 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. How could it be any easier? Why? Because you see 7's? I don't see that as conclusive. Where in the text of the 7th seal do you see a beginning? I see an end. Quote You are mistaken: "everything" does not happen in the last week: the last week is all wrath and we are out of here before wrath. Prove it. I see no such evidence. Joel disputes your ideas. Quote Please take note: the great crowd too large to number was seen in chapter 7, before any "tribulation." Really? "Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?” 14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.” So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. " How can this be BEFORE tribulation when the text says they CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION? This group is seen in heaven AFTER GT, not before. Quote For those that disagree: if you wish to be left behind, just tell God! I think He will give you the desire of your heart. Just know, it is going to be tough, for you will be out of the perfect will of God and will be overcome. Appeal to emotion? That's not fact, it's demagoguery. I'm pretty sure the only belief system or perception that will get one raptured or left behind is the confession of the mouth and the belief in the heart, or the lack. Quote For those that choose this path - be of good cheer: your fellow believers who were also left behind begin to show up in heaven in Rev. 15. You may well be among them. But HOW MUCH BETTER to be in that group too large to number, seen in heaven before any wrath? Again and again pretrib escapes but tosses brothers and sisters in the Lord into fiery destruction; an evil doctrine rife with arrogance and prejudice and no small amount of bigotry. How do you sleep at night plotting your escape while condemning your brethren to misery and torture? You escape wrath, but the rest don't? Pretrib says, "For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." But throws countless of their own family into the very wrath which they themselves escape. Can a doctrine be any more uncaring? I think not. Edited January 2, 2021 by Diaste 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 2, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,655 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 2,380 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/31/2020 at 5:30 PM, iamlamad said: For those left behind - imagine being a jew hiding in Berlin in 1943. Your chances of escaping is just about ZERO. But this time it will be around the world, with very few or no places to hide. All you ever have is rhetoric and inapt analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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