David1701 Posted June 28, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.55 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2021 5 hours ago, JohnD said: He was numbered with the disciples. The text doesn't say was was one of us. He was not a called disciple. Luke 22:3 (AV) 3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. He was numbered among them. He tagged along but was not called. "The twelve" was idiomatic like the 12 tribes of Israel (which there were 13). And the 12th disciple was and is the Apostle Paul (who later answered the call). Judas was a chosen apostle (although unsaved). Acts 1:24,25 (Webster) 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men , show which of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. There were not thirteen tribes of Israel! One of the tribes was split into two parts. The tribe consisted of both parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 28, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,938 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2021 On 9/9/2020 at 9:53 AM, Sister said: Acts 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. There seems to be a problem with this. It wasn't up to the apostles to choose who would replace Judas. Even though they prayed, they didn't receive an answer, but cast lots. God doesn't cast lots, it's not his tradition. God is the only one that can truly go into the heart of man, and the apostles were just new, not fully fed yet. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, Acts 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. You are right, as it seemed Joseph n matthias was choosen by them not by God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 28, 2021 On 6/26/2021 at 11:16 PM, LearningToLetGo said: There is a problem if the 12th apostle is Paul. That problem is that it makes the literal first action of the incipient church an error in judgement. How does one reconcile that? It has to be understood that the transitional nature of moving from law and customs of to grace and no traditions of men is one of expectation of this sort of thing happening.... 1 Cor 8:2 2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. KJV clearly they were going back to OT traditions thus the verse above applies... 17 hours ago, Alive said: I think it may be some help to consider what the Lord inspired Luke to write at the beginning the the book of the Acts of the Apostles. Luke makes it clear that Jesus was continuing to both act and teach in and through the Church after His ascension. Acts 1:1 (ESVS) In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God. The verse you use is referencing the fact that Luke had gathered historical witness to the life of Jesus up and to His ascension forming the Gospel of luke ... your statement seams to be relating to that differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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