doubleplay425 Posted November 18, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 29 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/30/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Josheb, I can kind of follow what you said but I didn't get an understanding of what you believe about the MOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 775 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,953 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Josheb said: Even if something occurred in modern times where we are somehow "marked" on the forehead or hand it does not mean it is a fulfillment of prophesy. . Its the mark of the beast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 775 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,953 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Josheb said: Few currently in the discussion are going to agree with me and since I know many of you don't handle my "style" well I've chosen to remain circumspect. But... since you asked (remember: you asked, so don't get upset because I answered, answered differently, and answered decisively)..... Whatever the mark was is lost to the centuries because the mark is not a future event or condition. It is a past occurrence. Some are going to dismiss that out of hand. Some are going to dismiss that because it is preterist and they'll have nothing to do with anything remotely preterist even thought we're all preterist to some degree. Some will dismiss it simply because it is contrary to their position. I can make the case from scripture for what I believe and am happy to do so with anyone actually genuinely interested in knowing the case for what I just stated. I don't feel the need to persuade anyone to change but if the case I present is factually correct, exegetically correct and logically rational then the need for any change speaks for itself. I will begin with the opening words of Revelation as written, plainly stated and plainly read without any additional interpretation. Revelation 1:1-3 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Revelation 1:1-3 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." Revelation-1:3 "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near." The Greek terms used for the portions I have place in bold-face type are "tachei" which literally means "quickly" or "in quickness or with speed" and "engys" which literally means "near" as in "near in place or time." "Engys" transliterally mean "in hand" or "at hand," (en = in or at; gys = hand). That is what the scriptures states and that is what I believe. The events described subsequent to the opening verses were going to happen quickly because the time was then near. Revelation begins with these qualifiers and it ends with these very same qualifiers (see Rev. 22:7,10). So.... whatever the mark was, it happened within a timeframe that was quickly coming to pass, or shortly coming to pass, and a timeframe that was near to when the vision was given to John. The most frequently occurring responses to this are... 1) a post-hoc appeal to "When did this happen?" or "No, it has not yet happened!" Post hoc ergo hoc is a fallacy. 2) the baseless interpretation the near is in reference to some unspecified future group of believers during whose time the near becomes relevant. 3) an appeal to 2 Peter 3:8 that ignores the fact Peter was saying Psalm 90:4 was coming true and ignores the fact God always uses the word "near" to mean near, and 4) ad hominem, appeals to ridicule, and/or straw men. I hope things will be different this time . What I posted above are the facts of scripture. The facts aren't open for debate or dispute. What we do with the facts may be disputed but what the facts themselves cannot be. Maybe we can discuss how those facts bear on the MOB but there will be no agreement with anyone who does not accept the facts of scripture as scripture itself asserts them. as written, plainly stated and plainly read. This will prove particularly problematic for anyone claiming to read prophesy literally because a literal reading of Rev. 1:1-3 makes it clear the MOB is a past occurrence. We needn't be looking for it in our future. We should be applying the lessons and/or precepts/principles taught in those scriptures today, but we're not looking for a future mark and we're definitely not doing so with any apprehension, dread, or vigilance. Its fast coming to our present world. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,272 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 680 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 16 hours ago, Josheb said: This will prove particularly problematic for anyone claiming to read prophesy literally because a literal reading of Rev. 1:1-3 makes it clear the MOB is a past occurrence. We needn't be looking for it in our future. We should be applying the lessons and/or precepts/principles taught in those scriptures today, but we're not looking for a future mark and we're definitely not doing so with any apprehension, dread, or vigilance. Hi Josheb, I suppose that if a person were looking at this from a perspective of time (as one would understand it), that is to say from a human point of view, then, yes, the "time is at hand or the time is near" would seem to have to occur readily, quickly...or soon, possibly within ones lifetime. But if a person looks at this from God's perspective, then "time is at hand or time is near" has a different meaning.....or a different perspective. Look at Rev 22:7...."Behold, I am coming quickly"..... Rev 22:12......"Behold, I am coming quickly....and my reward is with Me" Rev 22:20....."Yes, I am coming quickly" So yes, from God's rendering of time, He is coming quickly. In a couple of days! Hos 6:2....." He will revive us after two days, He will raise us up on the third day...." Heb 1:2..."in these last days He has spoken to us in His Son...." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said: And what if I suggested to you that "the mark" isn't physical at all? Because no man might buy or sell without it? The mark possibly won't be visible to the naked eye ( read with lazers) or it could be something like a tatoo that they let you pick. I mean, with the recent popularity of tatoos it's a free tatoo. Could be any number of ways they implement it. Yes, there are children of the devil and children of god. We are identified by our fruits. I don't read any more into the description than what's there. If you don't agree with me and want to think it's some kind of a spiritual identification I'm not going to argue over it, but I think it's some kind of an ID tied to computers that enables those who have it to use it like a debit card. There's already more than enough technology to implement this in different ways. This will immediately separate those who agreed to get it and those who didn't. I believe the same techniques will be used the drive the herd mentality now. Those ( take your choice of names here) why won't they fall into the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Walter Goraj jr said: It's a spiritual mark. There are a precise number of individuals that belong to satan that spiritually "wear" his "mark" just as there are a precise number of individuals with their Father's name "written" in their "foreheads" (Rev.14:1). These are the 144,000 Jews who God marks for His protection. This is very possibly only a mark God sees. I don't think the Bible is crystal clear here as to the visibility of the mark to others. One view is these are all Jews who finally begin to see their messiah was Jesus all along. The mark mentioned in reference to the MOB is I believe, an identification mark firstly for ID in the New World Order system. I DON'T believe that it will have much if anything to do with the current prospects for a vaccine for COVID, although I could see the RIFD tags being a sort of dry run to see how something as massive as a worldwide vaccine program could be done in preparation for something more nefarious later on. I don't believe any of the ideas that say the vaccine itself will be evil or have something bad they are putting into us. I don't think it will be bad to take the vaccine unless it is somehow used for control. Even then, I don't think it is the MOB. JMOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 I can't see all the posts. Nuff said. We are all free to study, converse and understand without the expectation that only one view reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleplay425 Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 29 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/30/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Some of the viewpoints on the site, endtimestruth.com, are very convincing. Have you guys been on there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley L Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 304 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 19, 2020 On 11/13/2020 at 1:17 AM, doubleplay425 said: Hello everyone! I'm not sure how many people here are concerned about the vaccine being the mark of the beast, but quite obviously it can't be. You don't get a shot in the hand or forehead! My theory is that this may be a precursor to the mark of the beast. It may be required for people to get vaccinated, or strongly recommended, in the name of "public health". This will be a way to save lives and improve our quality of life. Along with the vaccine, as you may be aware, you receive some subcutaneous piece of technology that allows for people to know who has been vaccinated. Later, PERHAPS, they may go one step further with the RFID chip. They may say, again, that it is in the name of the common good that people receive the chip so that crime can be done away, taxes cannot be avoided, keys can be done away with, archaic forms of ID can be done away with, and even that filthy money can become a thing of the past with digital transactions. Let's say I'm right (and please chime in if you think I'm not...I've got thick skin). Would it be made optional? How could God send someone to hell if this chip was forced on you? Wouldn't that mean that it would be recommended and therefore people would exercise their free will to accept? Lastly, I started wondering about the prophets in the Bible. How did they receive prophecy? Was it always through God speaking to them and/or giving them visions of the future? How would the prophet John have known about this hand or forehead mark of the beast? Would he have had a vision of someone scanning there hand to purchase something and also saw someone getting his or her forehead scanned? Discuss! In the Netherlands the government is discussing whether people who deny to get a vaccine will be denied certain freedoms/access to specific buildings/areas. The follow up question would be, how would they know who got the vaccine or not? This could lead to some kind of an electronic mark. My guess is that the vaccine alone is not the mark. But combined with health and security reasons, government will find a way to push people to get the vaccine and the mark. The only hole in this assumption is how it would become idolatry, worshipping the beast. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleplay425 Posted November 19, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 29 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/30/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 I believe I've heard the argument (from scripture) that the body is for glorifying God. If one was to accept a piece of technology inside the body, it could be argued it's a big no no. Could technology be one of the beasts talked about in scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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