Does "Sin" Prove Evolution to be Incorrect?

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 1/12/2021 at 3:56 PM, The Barbarian said:

Exactly.   Genesis is neutral on this issue.   You can be a creationist or an evolutionist and be consistent with Christianity.   Only if you insist that God has endorsed creationism or evolution in Genesis, do you commit error.

 

Scripture however does [lean towards] creating/creation with verses from God's own mouth like Job 40:15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

God claiming, "{I MADE}" does seem clearer than had He said, [I evolved].  If we take the scripture Genesis 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, (we see the process God uses to [MADE man]).  {Formed} is to mold, pattern, manufacture.   God forms man.  Man is just a mold.  God breathes [life] into man.  And from a couple verses prior to Genesis 2:7, we see man is {FORMED/MADE} to till the soil.

 

Honestly, none of that comes off as a process of time.   It clearly eludes that man is Formed (Job God said He [Made]) from the dust of the top soil.   A man was in his form but was not alive.  God then "Breathed Life" into man.   Man has awakened.

 

It really clarifies a lot of engineering, mathematics issues.   It does not resemble 13 billion years of processing.   

[The Barbarian]

11 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

Scripture however does [lean towards] creating/creation

It very clearly asserts creation.   Just not creationism.   It says He made all things.   The part that isn't asserted, is how He did it.   The evidence indicates evolution was the way He created life's diversity.

God says that the earth brought forth living things.   We have to be careful not to force meaning into allegories that are not there.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by The Barbarian

[Guest kingdombrat]

12 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

It very clearly asserts creation.   Just not creationism.   It says He made all things.   The part that isn't asserted, is how He did it.   The evidence indicates evolution was the way He created life's diversity.

God clarifies from the dust of the Earth.   Evolution for {Species} began as a [soup].   Both are clearly opposite of one another.   

Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground

We can assume Behemoth was also made from the [dust (not soup)] of the [ground (not pool beds of single cell and bacteria + other special conditions)].

 

I believe knowing Darwin's Theories and those who've carried it on arrive Evolution is [liquid] based in its origin.   God is claiming at least Mammal life originates from the [dust] of the ground.   Dust seems extremely opposite of Liquid, from my viewpoint.

12 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

God says that the earth brought forth living things.   We have to be careful not to force meaning into allegories that are not there.

No, God says what He specifically used about the Earth to bring forth life forms.   We can easily deduct that God, when making beast and man, used similar patterns of mold making.   Dust, is all He required.   He added the rest.   

Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

I believe knowing Darwin's Theories and those who've carried it on arrive Evolution is [liquid] based in its origin.   God is claiming at least Mammal life originates from the [dust] of the ground.   Dust seems extremely opposite of Liquid, from my viewpoint.

Darwin made no such claim.   He merely asserted that God created the first living things.   But yes, dust from the ground (apparently desert areas) seems to have been essential.  Since life is essentially water-dependent, water had to be involved.   Notice, God describes living things coming from solid, liquid, and gaseous matter.

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

21 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Darwin made no such claim.   He merely asserted that God created the first living things.   But yes, dust from the ground (apparently desert areas) seems to have been essential.  Since life is essentially water-dependent, water had to be involved.   Notice, God describes living things coming from solid, liquid, and gaseous matter.

 

We know the WORD, Christ Yeshua, was our Maker/Creator.   What's interesting in understanding Genesis, where God explains to Moses about spitting into dust to make Adam in a [clay] mold.   Is that 2,000 years later, Christ Yeshua [the WORD] shows us an example of {dust + spit = clay for Creation}.  We clearly see Yeshua spit on the ground.   That spittle with the dust made clay.   He then applies this cly, [using same method how He created all things {spitting into the ground making clay}].   So then, it is clear that God Himself provided the [water] in Creating mammal and no doubt repltilian and other Species like fish.   He did make us in need of water like all life forms.   

 

John 9:6-7:

6When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

7And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

But God shows us in 2 places, 1 specifically (John 9:6), how He made clay, how He formed the clay (this example is his eyes), how He applied the clay and it became his eyesight.   He, God, makes it rather clear here how He [Created] lifeforms.  I do not connect the dots here with John 9:6 that spit + ground = clay transforms into a process of Evolution.   

Christ spit, maybe 5 minutes passed [who knows] but the ground with spit became clay, He was able to use His hands and create something with the clay, then He stuck it into the eye sockets of the blind man.   My guess here is roughly 30 minutes for this entire process to happen [spit to clay mold in eye socket].   

Christ provides a very clear picture how He Created in Genesis (in Creating Adam/behemoth) by what/how He did to make clay, make it pliable and to be molded.   He completely cuts out the need for a process like Evolution.   

We can literally take him at his [w-o-r-d-s] when He said He spit into dust and formed man.

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground

 

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them

 

[The Barbarian]

That's a creative interpretation, but it adds too much to the Word for me to accept it as His.

Sometimes, an allegory is just an allegory.

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

I used the specific wording as we read it in written format of the KJV Bible.  And then I just provided Scripture as it reads.   There is no formatting verses to mean anything.   Those verses are [plain] written so everyone can understand.   It is amazing proof against ideas attached to [time and process].

[The Barbarian]

On 1/20/2021 at 12:46 AM, kingdombrat said:

Those verses are [plain] written so everyone can understand.  

If that were true, all Christians would agree on their meaning.    And there isn't general agreement on them.   That being so, it can't be "proof."

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

14 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

If that were true, all Christians would agree on their meaning.    And there isn't general agreement on them.   That being so, it can't be "proof."

 

Maybe [reality] and its perception has become undetectable to those who have lost touch.   God uses specific words {dust-form-spit-turns to clay} when claiming His [creating] method.   How one can mistranslate that for their own view and vision is clearly a reference to a lack of comprehension.

[The Barbarian]

If that were true, all Christians would agree on their meaning.    And there isn't general agreement on them.   That being so, it can't be "proof."

6 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

Maybe [reality] and its perception has become undetectable to those who have lost touch.

I wouldn't accuse creationists of "losing touch."   That kind of thing is precisely why Jesus gave the pharisees so much grief.   Some things are just not unambigously clear in scripture.   

And we should have the humility to accept the fact, and to recognize that somethings are not generally agreed within His church.