Alive Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.52 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 13, 2020 19 hours ago, Josheb said: Alive did not ask about "pistis." He asked about "rhēmatos." Hearing comes from the rhēmatos of God, not the logos, and not the sinner's will or willful listening. My own personal illustration/experience of this is the moment the Lord gave me that faith as a gift. It is interesting because two events happened seperated by a fraction of a second in earth time. My friend John K quoted 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life'. I then heard the Lord speak to me saying, "I am the Truth". In that moment, I knew. Grace--I was a mess, a criminal--a sinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands On Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 227 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2020 Of course one should read read the section pertaining to the unjust judge.If I repeat a comment already made here I apologetiese. However Leon Morris offers this interpretation of verse 8 "Vindication will be done speedily ,but we should understand this in terms of God's time (in which one day is as a thousand years...2Pet.3:8)...When He asks whether the Son of man will find faith on earth, he is not suggesting that there will be no believers.He is saying that the characteristic of the world's people at that time will not be faith.Men of the world never recognize the ways of God and they will not see His vindication of His elect."(Morris,Tyndale New Testament Commentaries.Luke.263-264) As far as the Church is concerned Norval Geldenhuys offers this view "But the serious question is whether, according to His promises, the faithful are going to persevere in faith,so that when Jesus , the Son of Man, will come in glory He will find on earth real faith in Him and His promises.This question by no means implies that at Christ's coming the Christian church will no longer exist- for He says expressly (verse 7) that God's own elect will still continually be praying to Him that justice should be done to them.No:His question (verse 8b) is intended as a warning that believers should take heed not to let their faith waver, notwithstanding His apparent delay in coming So He concludes the parable with a powerful summons to His followers to maintain true belief in Him, through whom the Father will give final victory."(Geldenhuys. The New London Commentary on the New Testament.The Gospel of Luke.447) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.52 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Josheb said: Yes, and it is not of ourselves. Don't know why there's so much debate over this. We are saved by grace through faith and it is not of ourselves. There isn't a principle that I can think of that is more clear from back to front of scripture and the Creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.52 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Josheb said: Well I might go with "God exists," over salvation by grace through faith since the latter depends on the former but I get what you're saying. I completely agree. Yup--I was half expecting something like that. Iron -->Iron. LOL I was going to be more specific and qualify my statement, but I am lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Josheb said: then silence and not further criticism is appropriate. I believe this to be good advice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 23 hours ago, JohnD said: A child, filled with the Holy Spirit interpreting the Word of God (and tested by the Bible that it is the actual Holy Spirit doing the interpretation) is greater than 100% scholars / theologians / pastors brought up through the organizational ranks of the Church without the Holy Spirit as the ultimate authority of scriptural interpretation. A mere child. How prevalent is this? Ask your pastor, teacher, theologian, scholar, clergy, priest, all of them what is the first and foremost thing we are to know about scripture. Most will not get it right. The scriptures have only two verses that begin with "know this first" and only one of them referring to the scriptures themselves. If they get the passage right, they will not know the meaning of it or the implication of it. So, how prevalent is it? How do you balance your belief with these Scriptures? Eph 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: KJV 2 Tim 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 On 12/12/2020 at 1:20 PM, Alive said: @enoob57look at the greek for that "word" in Rom 10.17 We know at that time, 58 AD, these were letters to early Christian believers and the Logos was not yet completed for that would not take place for another 30 - 4o years.... I agree with this differentiation between the two .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.52 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 14, 2020 59 minutes ago, enoob57 said: We know at that time, 58 AD, these were letters to early Christian believers and the Logos was not yet completed for that would not take place for another 30 - 4o years.... I agree with this differentiation between the two .... Jesus uses the word 'logos' many times. Not sure what your point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 14, 2020 2 hours ago, enoob57 said: How do you balance your belief with these Scriptures? Eph 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: KJV 2 Tim 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. KJV That they began with the beginning (2 Peter 1:20-21). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdombrat Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Josheb said: The two are distinct and the Logos never contradicts the Rhema, and neither ever contradict the Incarnate (three versions of the word, not two). The Logos was complete. The logos was not (two different forms of logos, not one). However, we're digressing. This all started because of an appeal to Romans 10:17 and Romans 10:17 does not say anything about logos. It speaks of rhema. Reading the Bible, reading the written logos, is not the same as hearing rhema. Never has been, was not so in Romans, and never will be the same. Otherwise sincere and well-meaning Christians often appeal to Romans 10:17 mistakenly thinking that is about words coming out of an evangelists mouth and into the ears of a non-believer when in fact the verse is about rhema. And since only God can give rhema, the verse is about revelation only God can provide. We agree, faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ but the thing being heard is rhema, not logos. We (Alive and I) wholeheartedly agree with and have relied upon Romans 10:17, what it actually states, as written, plainly read. Just saying. So you are claiming you cannot get the same meaning from reading a verse as you get from hearing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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