R. Hartono Posted December 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2020 (edited) Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. Revelation 20:1-7 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended..... Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the Lord. Isaiah 2:2-4 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. Zechariah 14:16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’ Revelation 2:26-27 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. Revelation 5:10 And You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Zechariah 14:8 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter. Ezekiel 44:1-3 Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east. And it was shut. And the Lord said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut. Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the Lord. He shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.” Then he brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple, and I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple of the Lord. And I fell on my face. And the Lord said to me, “Son of man, mark well, see with your eyes, and hear with your ears all that I shall tell you concerning all the statutes of the temple of the Lord and all its laws. And mark well the entrance to the temple and all the exits from the sanctuary. ... Isaiah 11:7 The cow will graze with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play by the cobra’s den, and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest.9They will neither harm nor destroy on all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the sea is full of water.… Isaiah 51:4-8 “Give attention to me, my people, and give ear to me, my nation; for a law will go out from me, and I will set my justice for a light to the peoples. My righteousness draws near, my salvation has gone out, and my arms will judge the peoples; the coastlands hope for me, and for my arm they wait. Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and they who dwell in it will die in like manner; but my salvation will be forever, and my righteousness will never be dismayed. “Listen to me, you who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear not the reproach of man, nor be dismayed at their revilings. For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the worm will eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation to all generations.” Isaiah 65 19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people, the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. 20 “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years, the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child, the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. 21 They will build houses and dwell in them, they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them. 24 Before they call I will answer, while they are still speaking I will hear 25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord. Edited January 19, 2021 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 12/23/2020 at 8:49 PM, R. Hartono said: Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. Revelation 20:1-7 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended..... Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the Lord. Isaiah 2:2-4 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. Zechariah 14:16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’ Revelation 2:26-27 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. Revelation 5:10 And You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Zechariah 14:8 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter. Ezekiel 44:1-3 Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east. And it was shut. And the Lord said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut. Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the Lord. He shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.” Then he brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple, and I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple of the Lord. And I fell on my face. And the Lord said to me, “Son of man, mark well, see with your eyes, and hear with your ears all that I shall tell you concerning all the statutes of the temple of the Lord and all its laws. And mark well the entrance to the temple and all the exits from the sanctuary. ... Isaiah 11:7 The cow will graze with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play by the cobra’s den, and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest.9They will neither harm nor destroy on all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the sea is full of water.… Isaiah 51:4-8 “Give attention to me, my people, and give ear to me, my nation; for a law will go out from me, and I will set my justice for a light to the peoples. My righteousness draws near, my salvation has gone out, and my arms will judge the peoples; the coastlands hope for me, and for my arm they wait. Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and they who dwell in it will die in like manner; but my salvation will be forever, and my righteousness will never be dismayed. “Listen to me, you who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear not the reproach of man, nor be dismayed at their revilings. For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the worm will eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation to all generations.” Isaiah 65 19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people, the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. 20 “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years, the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child, the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. 21 They will build houses and dwell in them, they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them. 24 Before they call I will answer, while they are still speaking I will hear 25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord. What is your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: So my question for you (with love) would be: If the above verses are to be taken literally, what verses could then be understood allegorically? Here is the definition: Allegory: A work that makes extensive use of symbolism in order to communicate a broader moral ( spiritual)meaning. For example, in Is. 65:20, " the child shall die an hundred years old". Now really, really think about it. You want us to believe that in this new "millennial kingdom" there will be hundred year old children that will not live to be one hundred an one (literal) years old, because they have to die. A (child)....100 years old. Do you believe the Bible is to be understood only literally? If so I think that's really the problem. If not, it would be interesting to know what verses you believe to have dualistic meaning. The only major literal thing that will occur next in our world is judgment day. We need to be prepared for that. The Bible is a spiritual book, and even though we can learn alot of history and morality, the heavenly language should be the most desirable aspect of the true believer. 3 hours ago, missmuffet said: What is your question? Im just posting verses confirming Millennium of Jesus as many dont believe n think God created a moral allegorical symbol only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 8, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: If you believe an actual wolf is going to lay down next to an actual lamb in a " millenial paradise " in the midst of an earth still cursed with sin Thats the condition similar be4 Adam fell into sin, the devil is put into the abyss for a thousand years n Lord Jesus will refresh the earth n the atmosphere, nothing allegorical. Edited February 8, 2021 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 777 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,954 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,985 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated : "the devil is put into the abyss for a thousand years" Literal? Really? The Greek word for "abyss"( abussos, strongs #12) means " depthless" or "bottomless". You would also have to explain the phenomenon of casting a spiritual being into a literal place. This is allegorical language. I could even explain what it means. The devil asked Jesus to sent them into swines, was it an allegorical too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 7:23 AM, Walter Goraj jr said: So my question for you (with love) would be: If the above verses are to be taken literally, what verses could then be understood allegorically? Here is the definition: Allegory: A work that makes extensive use of symbolism in order to communicate a broader moral ( spiritual)meaning. It is all meant to be taken Literally. Even the Allegorical. Allegory is only used to make it easier to understand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,641 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,373 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 3:34 PM, R. Hartono said: Im just posting verses confirming Millennium of Jesus as many dont believe n think God created a moral allegorical symbol only. I'm looking forward to it. I think many are fearful it is real. Not me. I can't wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Riverwalker said: It is all meant to be taken Literally. Even the Allegorical. Allegory is only used to make it easier to understand Perhaps, or perhaps not... Psalm 50:10 King (KJV) 10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Justin Adams said: Perhaps, or perhaps not... Psalm 50:10 King (KJV) 10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I am pretty sure God has at least 1000 hills. and everything is His. That is the message and we are to take it literally. Psalm 50:7“Hear, O My people, and I will speak, O Israel, and I will testify against you; I am God, your God! 8 I will not rebuke you for your sacrifices Or your burnt offerings, Which are continually before Me. 9 I will not take a bull from your house, Nor goats out of your folds. 10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills. 11 I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 41 minutes ago, Riverwalker said: That is the message and we are to take it literally. There are other good ideas since the very syntax of the Greek is confusing. Nobody has conclusively proved that Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Think about it. "Another excerpt by Dr. Riddlebarger: There are four major approaches to interpreting the Book of Revelation. (4) The one with which most of you are familiar is the futurist view, which holds that much of what is written here remains yet to be fulfilled in the days immediately before our Lord's return. This explains why it is that people who hold this view (like Hal Lindsey, and Tim LaHaye) spend so much of their time and energy trying to tie the symbols in the Book of Revelation to current events. As many of you know, many evangelical churches and ministries devote themselves to explaining every tragedy and political crisis directly from the pages of Revelation. But if you are expecting me to do the same you'll be very disappointed. I am not going to identify the Antichrist, predict the date of our Lord's return, or explain the roles of America and Israel in biblical prophecy. Instead, I will be talking about what John talks about: Jesus Christ's certain victory over all of his enemies. Another view-which is gaining acceptance among Reformed Christians-is preterism. This view holds that Revelation was written before the destruction of Jerusalem in A. D. 70, and that much of what we find in the Book of Revelation has been fulfilled when the Roman army sacked Jerusalem in A. D. 70, destroying the temple and dispersing surviving Jews throughout the Mediterranean world. Preterists make the opposite error as do the futurists. Instead of treating this book as though it deals with future events, preterists treat Revelation as though it is largely historical, and that everything written here has already taken place, with the possible exception of Christ's second coming and the resurrection, a view taken by so-called partial preterists like R. C. Sproul and Ken Gentry. (5) This is very problematic because it reduces Revelation to a mere historical record, robbing the book of its apocalyptic character and its stress upon Christ's final and eschatological victory when he returns in judgment to raise the dead and make all things new on the "last day." A third view is one which has been widely held by historic Protestants and is known as historicism. Though few still hold it today, this view sees the book of Revelation as a kind of historical map which plots the history of Christ's church from the apostolic age unto the time of the Reformation. Proponents of this view usually identify the Harlot of Babylon in Revelation 18 with the papacy and the Roman church, a view which has been elevated to confessional status by the Westminster Confession. Although the papacy may indeed be a part of the anti-Christian opposition to the preaching of the Gospel, this view does not comport well with the nature of apocalyptic literature, which depicts not specific events, but general patterns of a re-occurring conflict between Christ and Satan which culminates in a final eschatological battle. A fourth view is called idealism, a modified form of which I will be presenting throughout this series. This view emphasizes the apocalyptic nature of the book, and understands the various visions throughout Revelation as depictions of the struggle which takes place during the entire period of time between the first and the second coming of Jesus Christ. Each vision is describing the same period of time but from a different perspective or vantage point, each vision with a different theological theme or emphasis. As Dennis Johnson from Westminster Seminary puts it, each of these visions is like looking at the same scene from a different camera angle. (6) This means that we must not see Revelation as depicting strictly future or historical events, nor does Revelation exhaustively map out the history of the church age. Instead, we must see the visions and symbols in them as pictures of the on-going struggle between Christ and Satan and his agents, the beast and the dragon, a struggle which Christ will inevitably win on behalf of his people. This is the way apocalyptic literature works." https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/why-not-a-literal-1000-year-millennium.13053/page-2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts