Does Understanding the Magnitude of {DNA} in Its Entirety Prove "Intelligent Design?"

[The Barbarian]

Yes.   And if you rank relationships by DNA, you get the same evolutionary relationships first worked out by anatomical and biochemical data.

10 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Which opens up a whole new set of questions relating to all manner of divine creations, Seraphim, Cherubim, etc.

No.   It has nothing to do with spiritual beings.   Only biological organisms.

10 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

When man and woman conceive an offspring, that offspring has a unique DNA different than either parent.  Pretty awesome for God to provide for the spreading of life.

Yes.   We each have about 50% of each parent's genes, but we also have about a hundred mutations that were not present in either of our parents.   The kind of variation, necessary for adaptation and survival of the species.

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

No.   It has nothing to do with spiritual beings.   Only biological organisms.

I'm afraid you missed my point here or I poorly worded the point I was trying to make.  The Bible talks of Angels seeing the beauty of womankind and taking whomever they chose to create the Nephilim.

(Genesis 6:1)  When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,
(Genesis 6:2)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
(Genesis 6:3)  Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
(Genesis 6:4)  The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.  [ESV]

So the Nephilim must have had compatible DNA with the Angels so they could have offspring.  So do the Angels have DNA in addition to their spiritual component much like human beings in that sense.  We also know the Nephilim were not immortal like the Angels but were subject to mortal death.

I'm afraid you missed my point here or I poorly worded the point I was trying to make.  The Bible talks of Angels seeing the beauty of womankind and taking whomever they chose to create the Nephilim.

(Genesis 2:7)  then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.  [ESV]

But there's one thing missing, the breadth of life God imparted to Adam.  His Spirit.  It's not stated how creation had life without God imparting some spiritual component to them.  There's no scripture one way or the other.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So the Nephilim must have had compatible DNA with the Angels so they could have offspring. 

Something's way wrong there.  Angels are spirits.   Spirits don't have DNA.   Only biological organisms have DNA.   (and not all of them).

The identification of the "Sons of God" with angels is a modern interpretation, but it's not an assumption supported by any scriptural evidence.

Deuteronomy 14:1 Be ye children of the Lord your God: you shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness for the dead;

It's perfectly possible for God to give an angel a body for a specific purpose in interacting with us, but I doubt of that included experimenting with hybridizing humans and angels.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Barbarian

[Guest]

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Something's way wrong there.  Angels are spirits.   Spirits don't have DNA.   Only biological organisms have DNA.   (and not all of them).

Angels (Fallen) had offspring with the daughters of man, or don't you believe the Bible?

(Genesis 6:1)  When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,
(Genesis 6:2)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
(Genesis 6:3)  Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
(Genesis 6:4)  The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.  [ESV]

The Bible is full of interactions between men and angels, or don't you believe the Bible?

(Genesis 3:22)  Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”
(Genesis 3:23)  therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
(Genesis 3:24)  He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.  [ESV]

(Genesis 19:1)  The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth
(Genesis 19:2)  and said, “My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the town square.”
(Genesis 19:3)  But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
(Genesis 19:4)  But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house.  [ESV]

Angels eat as humans and interact with man as recognizable but human-like beings, but also recognizable as angels.  Blow the dust off your concordance and check it out.

Jesus ate with the Apostles after His resurrection. 

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The identification of the "Sons of God" with angels is a modern interpretation, but it's not an assumption supported by any scriptural evidence.

No it is not.  You're using false statements to prove your non-existent point.

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Deuteronomy 14:1 Be ye children of the Lord your God: you shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness for the dead;

It's perfectly possible for God to give an angel a body for a specific purpose in interacting with us, but I doubt of that included experimenting with hybridizing humans and angels.

You may doubt it but the people of Jesus time from which the book of Enoch was being read in the Temple had a different belief.  The belief you chose to espouse is the modern interpretation to explain away things you evidently cannot understand.

[The Barbarian]

I get that you feel very strongly about this, but it's not generally accepted by Christians for the reasons I mentioned and many others.

I'm puzzled as how anyone can think Jesus is the Author of "modern interpretations."   He says that spirits have no bodies.  So no DNA, and no mating with humans.

 

[Guest]

On 9/30/2021 at 4:23 PM, The Barbarian said:

I get that you feel very strongly about this, but it's not generally accepted by Christians for the reasons I mentioned and many others.

I'm puzzled as how anyone can think Jesus is the Author of "modern interpretations."   He says that spirits have no bodies.  So no DNA, and no mating with humans.

I agree to disagree with you.  There are many prominent knowledgeable theologians that agree with the Bible that angels left their first estate and mated with humans creating the Nephilim who survived Noah's Flood as stated in Genesis 6:4.

(Genesis 6:1) And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
(Genesis 6:2)  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
(Genesis 6:3)  And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
(Genesis 6:4)  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.  [KJV]

[The Barbarian]

The probability of a single protein abiotically forming is 1.0.   We know this because peptides (short proteins) have been observed to form naturally.   That's old news.   But now...

 

Astrophysics > Earth and Planetary Astrophysics

Hemolithin: a Meteoritic Protein containing Iron and Lithium

This paper characterizes the first protein to be discovered in a meteorite. Amino acid polymers previously observed in Acfer 086 and Allende meteorites [1,2] have been further characterized in Acfer 086 via high precision MALDI mass spectrometry to reveal a principal unified structure of molecular weight 2320 Daltons that involves chains of glycine and hydroxy-glycine residues terminated by iron atoms, with additional oxygen and lithium atoms. Signal-to-noise ratios up to 135 have allowed the quantification of iron and lithium in the various MALDI fragments via the isotope satellites due to their respective minority isotopic masses 54Fe and 6Li. Analysis of the complete spectrum of isotopes associated with each molecular fragment shows 2H enhancements above terrestrial averaging 25,700 parts per thousand (sigma = 3,500, n=15), confirming extra-terrestrial origin and hence the existence of this molecule within the asteroid parent body of the CV3 meteorite class. The molecule is tipped by an iron-oxygen-iron grouping that in other terrestrial contexts has been proposed to be capable of absorbing photons and splitting water into hydroxyl and hydrogen moieties.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.11688

So how could this possibly happen in terms of your video, which seems to rule out any such thing?    It's because the guy who made the video is better at making videos than using statistics and probability.   Here's what went wrong...

He assumed the probability of a particular sequence of amino acids randomly forming, not any particular sequence.   Why does that matter?    Well, let's take a look...

Shuffle a deck of cards and then deal them out one at a time, noting the order.    The resulting order has a probability of about um...

0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001068

Which is so astoundingly unlikely as to be effectively "impossible" by your video guy's thinking.  The inverse of that number is supposedly a rough approximation of the number of atoms in our galaxy.    And yet, it happens every time.   Considering the likelihood of your particular genes, given the genes of your great, great grandparents, you are even more unlikely.    

So your video guy has "proven" that you and poker games are impossible.  Does that suggest what's wrong with his reasoning?

That's not the only problem.   You see, for dimensional reasons, not all sequences of amino acids are equally likely in a peptide sequences such as found in proteins.    So his initial assumption is wrong there, too.

Edited October 7, 2021 by The Barbarian
eror

[The Barbarian]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:54 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I agree to disagree with you.  There are many prominent knowledgeable theologians that agree with the Bible that angels left their first estate and mated with humans creating the Nephilim who survived Noah's Flood as stated in Genesis 6:4.

Unfortunately, there are many more prominent knowledgeable theologicans who point out that the verses do not say that angels did this.  And since the Bible does not actually say such a thing, that settles it for me.

 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Unfortunately, there are many more prominent knowledgeable theologicans who point out that the verses do not say that angels did this.  And since the Bible does not actually say such a thing, that settles it for me.

Source: https://reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/notable-christians-open-to-an-old-universe-old-earth-perspective

Even YEC like Dr. John MacArthur believe that Angels cohabited with women to create the Nephilim as the Bible says.  I take the Bible as literal truth as spoken to the original recipients of His word.

I suggest we leave the argument here so don't get into trouble with the moderators of this forum.  If you want the last word you can have it, but I won't be responding.