The beginning of sorrows

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You total miss the THREE QUESTIONS and thus the THREE ANSWERS, Reread it again. Jesus starts out telling the Disciples about what at the beginning of the chapter? The Temples DESTRUCTION, thus the TELL US WHEN THESE THINGS WILL BE? Means tell us when the Temple will be Destroyed !! Do you not get that? SEE BELOW:

NO.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (THE TEMPLE)

This is the Temple prophecy.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This is the end of the age prophecy, the two are not related. The former was given as Jesus left the Temple. The other was given as Jesus sat on the mount of Olives, probably a minimum of 1/2 to an hour later. We don't really know when. It could have been a week later, a month, it may have been before Jesus gave the prophecy of the Temple. In any case they are not related.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, WHEN SHALL THESE THINGS BE clearly means When will the Temple be DESTROYED !! Then they say.......AND.....what will be the sign of your coming.....AND......of the end of the world (ANOTHER SIGN for this). Thus Jesus explains all three questions, and the very first one is WHEN WILL THESE THNGS BE !! Or when will the Temple be DESTROYED that you were just speaking about. Thus Jesus starts off with the Temples DESTRUCTION with his very first answer in verses 4-6.

No. But this is based on the false premise from the beginning and at lest is internal dogmatic consistency.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Or as another Gospel says is BY and BY). 

Jesus tells HIS DISCIPLES, do not let anyone deceive you, for many will come (the Pharisees put forth Political Messiahs) in my name, saying they are the Messiah, they will fool many, and YOU (Disciples) will hear of Wars (70 AD Rome defeats Israel) and Rumors of Wars (they will whisper THIS IS IT !! The Zechariah 14 Messianic victory we have been promised, the Daniel 7 and 8 VICTORY we have been  PROMISED) but don't be TROUBLED (don't believe these lies)because the END (My Return via Zechariah 14:3-4) will not come until MUCH LATER...........By and by, meaning THE END IS NOT YET !! 

Verses 4-6 are about the 70 AD crushing of Jerusalem. They were SACKED by Rome and the Temple was destroyed, Jesus thus answered their FIRST QUESTION, which was in regards to him saying the Temple will be destroyed. 

Again...no.

 

1As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings.

2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

 

Abundantly clear we have a time/space factor here. It can't be ignored. You do ignore it, you shouldn't.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

THEN, we get the SIGN of his coming (Lightening comes out of the east) at the Second Coming AND the End of the world as know to mankind. We are even given the Rapture in verses 36-51. 

So, NO ONE SAID it was the 70 AD event per se, I stated what Jesus states, these are the BIGGINING of the Birth Pangs. and they thus run all the way until the Rapture, after the Gospel is taken unto all the world, THEN THE END COMES.........See the Correlation? To be honest, the holy Spirit just locked this in even further for me. 

Jesus in verse 6 says the END IS NOT YET (is By and By) because it looks like the Zechariah 14:1-2 event Jesus feels he has to warn them, and then says AFTER the Gospel has been taken unto the ends of the world, THEN THE END (70th week/Zechariah 14:1-2) WILL COME !! 

He is  specifically telling the Disciples its not the END................then this is THE END (when the Gospel is taken unto all the world. Thus, when our mission on earth is complete, the 70th week begins, AFTER the Rapture of course. 

The 70 AD Event had RUMORS of Wars BEFORE the 70 AD event. That is Jesus' point there, it didn't just happen, there were skirmishes here skirmishes there, the whole reason the Romans wound up sacking Jerusalem so violently was, they would not give in to the Roman rule. The Romans didn't like destroying cities completely, they would rather they just fall in line. 

Verse 7 starts the Church Age Worldwide Age of 2000 some odd years. Verse 14 ENDS the Church Age.

Only those living during the 70th week would see ALL THESE EVENTS, not those in verses 4-6 or those in verses 7-14, but those in verses 15-31. 

The Church age?? Got any scripture for that? No? Didn't think so.

[Diaste]

On 1/15/2021 at 11:10 PM, Revelation Man said:

The BIRTH PANGS deliver the baby, thus these Sorrows should deliver the 70th week, thus they CAN NOT BE the 70th week. Matthew 24:4-6 is all about the 70 AD Sacking of Jerusalem. Matt. 24:7-14 is all about the Church Age. Matt. 24:15-31 is all about the coming 70th week tribulation. Thus we get THREE SPECIFIC MENTIONS of False Prophets for a reason. 

If there is a 'church age' I'd say this;

At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.

12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.

describes it perfectly.

More harm has been done to Jesus and the truth by the false prophets of the 'church age' than any other wile of Satan. 

On 1/15/2021 at 11:10 PM, Revelation Man said:

 In verse 9 the Disciples were warned they would be killed and in verse 11 they were warned about false prophets, thus these people serving false gods no doubt killed Peter, Paul, etc. etc. because they would not bow down unto their false gods, that is why in verse 13 Jesus warns them, ye must ENDURE until the end. (Its not about the 70th week end times). 

You really think the false prophet speaks for a false God? The false prophet speaks falsehood in the name of the Most High God. It's the almighty 'church' doing the deceiving and promoting false doctrine in the name of Jesus. Pretrib, prosperity, many ways to heaven, inclusivity, and on and on. 

 

[luigi]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You total miss the THREE QUESTIONS and thus the THREE ANSWERS, Reread it again. Jesus starts out telling the Disciples about what at the beginning of the chapter? The Temples DESTRUCTION, thus the TELL US WHEN THESE THINGS WILL BE? Means tell us when the Temple will be Destroyed !! Do you not get that? SEE BELOW:

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (THE TEMPLE)

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So, WHEN SHALL THESE THINGS BE clearly means When will the Temple be DESTROYED !! Then they say.......AND.....what will be the sign of your coming.....AND......of the end of the world (ANOTHER SIGN for this). Thus Jesus explains all three questions, and the very first one is WHEN WILL THESE THNGS BE !! Or when will the Temple be DESTROYED that you were just speaking about. Thus Jesus starts off with the Temples DESTRUCTION with his very first answer in verses 4-6.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Or as another Gospel says is BY and BY). 

Jesus tells HIS DISCIPLES, do not let anyone deceive you, for many will come (the Pharisees put forth Political Messiahs) in my name, saying they are the Messiah, they will fool many, and YOU (Disciples) will hear of Wars (70 AD Rome defeats Israel) and Rumors of Wars (they will whisper THIS IS IT !! The Zechariah 14 Messianic victory we have been promised, the Daniel 7 and 8 VICTORY we have been  PROMISED) but don't be TROUBLED (don't believe these lies)because the END (My Return via Zechariah 14:3-4) will not come until MUCH LATER...........By and by, meaning THE END IS NOT YET !! 

Verses 4-6 are about the 70 AD crushing of Jerusalem. They were SACKED by Rome and the Temple was destroyed, Jesus thus answered their FIRST QUESTION, which was in regards to him saying the Temple will be destroyed. 

THEN, we get the SIGN of his coming (Lightening comes out of the east) at the Second Coming AND the End of the world as know to mankind. We are even given the Rapture in verses 36-51. 

So, NO ONE SAID it was the 70 AD event per se, I stated what Jesus states, these are the BIGGINING of the Birth Pangs. and they thus run all the way until the Rapture, after the Gospel is taken unto all the world, THEN THE END COMES.........See the Correlation? To be honest, the holy Spirit just locked this in even further for me. 

Jesus in verse 6 says the END IS NOT YET (is By and By) because it looks like the Zechariah 14:1-2 event Jesus feels he has to warn them, and then says AFTER the Gospel has been taken unto the ends of the world, THEN THE END (70th week/Zechariah 14:1-2) WILL COME !! 

He is  specifically telling the Disciples its not the END................then this is THE END (when the Gospel is taken unto all the world. Thus, when our mission on earth is complete, the 70th week begins, AFTER the Rapture of course. 

The 70 AD Event had RUMORS of Wars BEFORE the 70 AD event. That is Jesus' point there, it didn't just happen, there were skirmishes here skirmishes there, the whole reason the Romans wound up sacking Jerusalem so violently was, they would not give in to the Roman rule. The Romans didn't like destroying cities completely, they would rather they just fall in line. 

Verse 7 starts the Church Age Worldwide Age of 2000 some odd years. Verse 14 ENDS the Church Age.

Only those living during the 70th week would see ALL THESE EVENTS, not those in verses 4-6 or those in verses 7-14, but those in verses 15-31. 

Hi again Revelation Man, We are getting off topic with your wanting to push the 70 AD theory that the beginning of the Olivet discourse entails the temples destruction.

Besides the previous criteria I posted showing that the Olivet discourse is all about the generation that see all the events mentioned therein; I will oblige this off topic issue one last time. When the Lord responds to his disciples about the magnificent structures in Jerusalem (which includes the temple), the Lord responds that not one stone would be left atop another, on any of the structures. Currently, there are many partially remaining structures of those the disciples pointed out to the Lord, including the base of the temple mount, currently known as the wailing wall. So unless the Lord meant just some of the buildings would be destroyed, and that some of the stones of the temples base would remain, the event the Lord then describes is yet forthcoming, when not one stone of any of the magnificent structures the disciples pointed out to the Lord will stand atop of another.

[Still Alive]

19 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

I think you are underestimating the world's population capacity... not today's world (60 billion may be reasonable), but in the future millennial reign of Christ. 

Our earth has about 200 million square miles of land.   Currently there are more than 130 cities in the US alone with a population density greater than 10,000 per square mile.   Keep that in mind. 

A country/ city/area that grows at 2.5%, double its population in about 28 years.   That is a typical growth rate.   If you were to add in the death rate of approx 70-80 years, you arrive at the birth rate.   In our example,  that would be about 3.75%.   Let's look at what theorists might predict for the millennial reign of Christ. 

Scripture says that a child die,  being a hundred years old.   This could be illustrated by Adam's age when Seth was born,  130 years.   I believe the "river of life", that proceeded from the abode of God in the garden of Eden,  will be the fountains of life that will flow out of Jerusalem, that will be restored prior to the Millennium.  This will be part of why,  life expectancies will be greatly increased during the Millennium.   Let's say that life expectancy,  at this time,  will be a mere 500 years (it will probably be even greater).  That is a death rate of 0.2% (1/500).  If the birth rate were reduced to a mere 3.0%, with a death rate of 0.2%, we end up with a growth rate of 2.8%.  This would mean that, over the course of 1000 years,  the population would be a trillion times what it started out as.  If the Millennium began with only 2 reproductive viable people [let's call them,  Adam2 & Eve2], this would result in 2 trillion people at the end of the millennium...a trillion fold increase.   How many viable people will enter the Millennium?  I have no idea.   But you see the potential results of what only 2 would do.    10,000 people/ square. Mi. (Psm) would equal 2 trillion people.   NYC has a population of >50,000 psm.  You see the potential of the millennial utopia? Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Meh. I throw out that figure to make leftist's heads explode.

I consider it a minimum.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Meh. I throw out that figure to make leftist's heads explode.

I consider it a minimum.

So just who am I supposed to have attacked, and when did we become like Socialists in this country and have to "AKNOWLWEDGE AN ATTACK" before we are given the right to look at the "SUPPOSED ATTACK" ? 

Because I might well disagree, and probably do, and may just leave the site. This seems more to me like an issue with you, and for some reason you seem not to care for me so as soon as someone "Reported" (which makes no sense tbh, I have been called all kind of things, I laugh at those who report posts on a message board because they get their feelings hurt, ODD to me) a post you want to MANDATE I acknowledge an attack without me even being able to see the post. "Say you are guilty before we show you the evidence"......that's not the right way sir, nor the Christ like way.

If you are talking about the guy calling the RCC and the Pope the Beast/Anti-Christ, that should more or less tell you something, why would any Christian site keep allowing that nonsense on a Christian board? Its total nonsense and you know it, yet you allow it over and over. (Maybe I should REPORT it.......)

You guys need to get a better system, at least ask a person about the post first, don't try to make people acknowledge a wrong without showing them the supposed issue. That is the Socialist way, not the American way, its surely not a Godly way. All people in Heaven will get to see the evidence when they are judged, even the wicked,  but not here, we got to admit it first. Do you know how backwards that system is? 

I have not personally attacked anyone. And if you think I have show me, because there is a possibility I made a typo, or that you don't understand my post. If its there show me, don't make an allegation without showing me the proof. 

You may get your wish, I may just leave the site, I don't care for sites where Mods are always getting involved over nothing because somebody Reports a post. I have much better things to do with my life than having a Mod follow me around on a board all day long, accusing me of attacking another Christian because they can't accept that someone disagrees with them. I have been on Message boars 25 years and not once have I ever REPORTED a post. (Someone hurt my feelings, let me report his post....)

And yes, I take it very personal when somebody states I attacked someone, without giving the proof. This makes me rethink ever posting in this site again. You are not showing brotherly love by accusing me of attacking someone personally, without providing the evidence, even if it were true,  you would still wrong for not showing the evidence first. Just because you are a Mod on this site brother, doesn't change who you are supposed to be as a Christian, Paul stated to take the issue unto the brother, don't just accuse them, you accused me and made me say I was guilty before showing the evidence, that is not Christ like. 

Show me the Evidence, if I PERSONALLY ATTACKED someone as you say I will leave this site forever. A Disagreement is not a personal attack. 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

Hi again Revelation Man, We are getting off topic with your wanting to push the 70 AD theory that the beginning of the Olivet discourse entails the temples destruction.

Besides the previous criteria I posted showing that the Olivet discourse is all about the generation that see all the events mentioned therein; I will oblige this off topic issue one last time. When the Lord responds to his disciples about the magnificent structures in Jerusalem (which includes the temple), the Lord responds that not one stone would be left atop another, on any of the structures. Currently, there are many partially remaining structures of those the disciples pointed out to the Lord, including the base of the temple mount, currently known as the wailing wall. So unless the Lord meant just some of the buildings would be destroyed, and that some of the stones of the temples base would remain, the event the Lord then describes is yet forthcoming, when not one stone of any of the magnificent structures the disciples pointed out to the Lord will stand atop of another.

You can't defeat the argument, I get it brother. 

[Riverwalker]

2 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You can't defeat the argument, I get it brother. 

Is that really the purpose here? To win arguments?

1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Revelation Man]

Just now, Riverwalker said:

Is that really the purpose here? To win arguments?

 

The argument of a case is like a DEBATE, you know this, but yet you want to focus on "ARGUING", which you know was not the point, its about debating a point, and since he couldn't win the debate, he decided to say we were getting off subject.

 

[Riverwalker]

1 minute ago, Revelation Man said:

The argument of a case is like a DEBATE, you know this, but yet you want to focus on "ARGUING", which you know was not the point, its about debating a point, and since he couldn't win the debate, he decided to say we were getting off subject.

 

Is the purpose here, to increase knowledge....or is it win.  Because it sure sounds like you are cutting notches in your genuine imitation cowhide bible cover.

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

Hi again Revelation Man, We are getting off topic with your wanting to push the 70 AD theory that the beginning of the Olivet discourse entails the temples destruction.

Besides the previous criteria I posted showing that the Olivet discourse is all about the generation that see all the events mentioned therein; I will oblige this off topic issue one last time. When the Lord responds to his disciples about the magnificent structures in Jerusalem (which includes the temple), the Lord responds that not one stone would be left atop another, on any of the structures. Currently, there are many partially remaining structures of those the disciples pointed out to the Lord, including the base of the temple mount, currently known as the wailing wall. So unless the Lord meant just some of the buildings would be destroyed, and that some of the stones of the temples base would remain, the event the Lord then describes is yet forthcoming, when not one stone of any of the magnificent structures the disciples pointed out to the Lord will stand atop of another.

Don't worry, I will not post in your thread again. Nor will I ever reply to you again. 

I know what happened.