LearningToLetGo Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2021 How do we know the scripture in the Bible is truly the word of God? It seems we have a sort of circular logic in that the Catholic church declared the Bible as canon and the Bible declared the Church as the definitive legacy of Jesus. What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,338 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,537 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Because God when in flesh testified of it's accuracy: Matt 5:18 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. KJV God in Spirit testifies of it accuracy: 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV God The Son testifies in prayer to The Father of it's accuracy: John 17:6-20 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (The Old Testament in Jesus day) 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (The Word belonged to The Father) 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (God declares His Word is Truth) 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (The Old Testament existing and the New Testament to be formed) KJV Bottom line what good would be a God Who could not keep His Word to us? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted January 24, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Apparently this question has been, not surprisingly, asked many times before. A quick Internet search yielded a dozen or so articles by various biblical scholars on this very topic. From what I looked at it seems there are two basic approaches to answering the question: 1) the Bible itself says that God inspired it therefore it is so, or 2) The Bible lists historical information that has been proven true along with scientific information that has been learned to be true (for example isolation of sick patients to prevent spread of disease). I suppose that's about as good a proof as one can expect under everyday circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted February 3, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted February 3, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 11:54 AM, LearningToLetGo said: How do we know the scripture in the Bible is truly the word of God? It seems we have a sort of circular logic in that the Catholic church declared the Bible as canon and the Bible declared the Church as the definitive legacy of Jesus. What am I missing here? I believe the Word of God is when Jesus or God are directly quoted in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted February 5, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,250 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,662 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2021 When I apply the directives I find in the New Testament to my situations and they work, they bring good results and peace in my own being, then I verify its truthfulness in my own life. When I look at the end results in a persons life as they face death I also find that those who love God face death with joy and those who have not received Christ are either in terror or are extremely anxious. The final truth is found in the Holy Spirit. Seek God to fill you with His Spirit. Luk 11:11 What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; Luk 11:12 or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? Luk 11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" The Holy Spirit was given to lead us into all truth. Joh 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. After you have received the Holy Spirit it will probably be much easier for you to discern what is from God. You will learn to recognize His voice in time. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted February 5, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 58 minutes ago, Willa said: When I apply the directives I find in the New Testament to my situations and they work, they bring good results and peace in my own being, then I verify its truthfulness in my own life. I agree one hundred per-cent. In fact, it was this observation that originally drew me to read the Bible. Within its pages I have found much wisdom, comfort and solace, and for that am grateful. However, I admit that I still struggle when asked to accept the Bible as the literal and exclusive word of God. Can I tell it is inspired? Absolutely! But I feel the same about other non-canonical texts so... well. It's a process, as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 11:54 AM, LearningToLetGo said: How do we know the scripture in the Bible is truly the word of God? It seems we have a sort of circular logic in that the Catholic church declared the Bible as canon and the Bible declared the Church as the definitive legacy of Jesus. What am I missing here? We are acquainted with the Author, and HE confirms His word 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted February 11, 2021 We approach the Bible with faith. We believe that the promises of God in the Bible are yes and amen to those who believe. But depending on just the written Scriptures make the observance literature-based. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, and that is not just quoting Scripture at people. It is the Holy Spirit working in and through the written Scriptures that brings faith to us. It is the Holy Spirit who confirms the written Scriptures when He wants to apply them to us. We must remember that much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, is written for us and not actually to us. This is where we need to use exegesis to determine who wrote it, who was the intended audience, and how the original people it was directed to understood it in terms of their own culture. Then we need to figure out whether it was limited to the culture of the time, or is it trans-cultural - applicable to any culture. What we might see is that although it is a direction to Old Testament Israel, it might not be a direction for us in the 21st Century. We need to use the same exegetical tools while studying the four gospels. Jesus was still talking to Old Covenant Jews still under the Law. Some things that Jesus taught were transcultural, and others were not. Just because we carefully examine the Scriptures and use the various methods of criticism, it doesn't mean that the Scriptures are watered down. To know whether the Holy Spirit is actually speaking to us through the written Scriptures, we need to be like the Bereans, and "search the Scriptures to see whether these things are so." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted February 14, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 I had a thought - and this is a work in progress - but is it possible that the Bible, among all its other qualities, is essentially a work of persuasion? In other words, is it purposefully written in such a way to specifically cause the reader to question and debate? This would make perfect sense since it would generate conversation, and that in turn would provide an avenue for the holy spirit to do its work. If the Bible were verbosely explicit then there would be no debate. It would be cut and dried. That might be great for those who already believe but it would do very little to engage those who don't. However, a book that seemingly contains errors, contradictions and several WTF!? moments ... now that get's people talking! And I believe that is exactly the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 14, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, LearningToLetGo said: I had a thought - and this is a work in progress - but is it possible that the Bible, among all its other qualities, is essentially a work of persuasion? In other words, is it purposefully written in such a way to specifically cause the reader to question and debate? This would make perfect sense since it would generate conversation, and that in turn would provide an avenue for the holy spirit to do its work. If the Bible were verbosely explicit then there would be no debate. It would be cut and dried. That might be great for those who already believe but it would do very little to engage those who don't. However, a book that seemingly contains errors, contradictions and several WTF!? moments ... now that get's people talking! And I believe that is exactly the point. "Come, let us reason together." Is. 1:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts