What part of us goes to be with God in death?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Frits said:

Hi Justin,

I'm going to say something about (what part or) which of the dead people went to God. This on the basis of Luke 16.

Abraham calls the gap in hades between him and the rich man fixed. (v26) For everyone deceased the gap is insurmountable, but to God it's not.  After all, nothing is too wonderful for the Lord Jesus!
'Is any thing too hard for the LORD?' (Gen.18:14)

It is logical that all the righteous in the blossom of Abraham went with the Lord Jesus in His resurrection, because they all believe in God.

But there are a number of interesting facts:

1. The Lord Jesus is able to cross the chasm in hades.

2. In 1Pt.3:19 it says that the Lord Jesus also preached to the spirits 'in prison'.

3. But on the side of Abraham, there is no prison regime at all.

4. The rich man begged Abraham to send Lazerus with water for cooling. (v24) So he assumed that people on the 'other side' could move freely.  He even considered it possible that Lazerus could be resurrected. (v30)

5. The angels of God have free access, because Lazerus was carried by them into Abraham's bosom. (v22)

6. Righteous Abraham and Lazerus had access to the water of life. (v24)

But who are in prison on the other side?

All the unbelieving people.who past away, they come on the rich man's side.
Think of all people of all ages who have never heard the true Gospel of Jesus Christ!  Ignorant people. Silly sinners, but also hard-hitting sinners!

With the irretrievable sinner the evil power of sin hangs around his neck like a heavy millstone!  When he dies, such a person descends far into the depths of hell. (Mt.18:6)

The cause of the sinner's torment is that he still clings to sin at death. Thus, the man and his demons remain bound together, even in the place of confinement!
Because they are locked up together, the souls can no longer avoid the demons and experience this as great torment of fire!

Are all the dead people on the rich man's side permanently lost? No. Some do, but others don't.
In 1Pet.3:20 it is spoken about the 'days of Noah'.
When Noah's preaching was over, God's judgment came upon the world and, except for the eight souls in the ark, all the people were given over to the water.

But this judgment by the water has lasted 40 days and 40 nights! (Gen.7:4)
Can you imagine that during that long period there were still people who came to be convinced that Noah had spoken the truth? In those last days of their lives they repented of their wicked ways, but by then Noah was already in the ark!
Have you ever heard of the term deathbed repentance?
Of the total population of the world in Noah's day, there have been some of these "disobedient" people who still regretted in their last hours.
God has seen that too, and was sufficient for the Lord Jesus to deliver them from their prison. (Eph.4:8) Hallelujah, our God is good and rich in mercy!

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with us forever.

Hello brother Frits, a lot of interesting questions and there are even more questions of this nature.

What about Cain, or what about the other "thief" who mocked, and what about Esau? 

What about Ismael? 

There many suggestion how to go about to find the answers to these questions and one of those ways is to be able answer those questions on our own.

And we begin with the question, what kind of information we need to have to be able to correctly figure the answers.

We can do that by studying the events that took place through out the times.

Jesus used the same method to help the disciples on the road to  Emmaus to see a lot of things about him in the  Psalms, the prophets and in the volume of the book as he said. 

How do we start?

One of the principles as follows.

We can see that principle at the time of the creation of Man.

Adam was created from God with the Life in him. 

We know what kind of Life his Creator had in him, if we may say that, by examining what Life Adam had before the fall. God breath Life into Adam, and Adam was in the Life, same Life that was in his Creator.

But what about Eve? We know that Eve was in the Life of God, because God said to both Adam and Eve, if you eat from the fruit of that tree you will surely die. 

But where did Eve got Life? 

We know that God did not created Eve the same way as Adam and God did not breath Life into her as he did with Adam. 

Then how did Eve was in the Life.

There is one way as to how Eve had the Life and this is that she got it from Adam.

Eve inherited the Life from Adam.

As Adam was in the Life, so was "his offspring Eve.

This one of the principles for the offsprings to be born by default in their Fathers Inheritance. 

Later on after the fall when Adam was in the death Inheritance, his children were born by DEFAULT in the death Inheritance of the parents, at that time till Abraham every one in the world was in the death Inheritance ir Adamic Inheritance with came not only with the death Inheritance, but their place of Inheritance after their phycical  death. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Frits]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello brother Frits, a lot of interesting questions and there are even more questions of this nature.

What about Cain, or what about the other "thief" who mocked, and what about Esau? 

What about Ismael? 

There many suggestion how to go about to find the answers to these questions and one of those ways is to be able answer those questions on our own.

And we begin with the question, what kind of information we need to have to be able to correctly figure the answers.

We can do that by studying the events that took place through out the times.

Jesus used the same method to help the disciples on the road to  Emmaus to see a lot of things about him in the  Psalms, the prophets and in the volume of the book as he said. 

How do we start?

One of the principles as follows.

We can see that principle at the time of the creation of Man.

Adam was created from God with the Life in him. 

We know what kind of Life his Creator had in him, if we may say that, by examining what Life Adam had before the fall. God breath Life into Adam, and Adam was in the Life, same Life that was in his Creator.

But what about Eve? We know that Eve was in the Life of God, because God said to both Adam and Eve, if you eat from the fruit of that tree you will surely die. 

But where did Eve got Life? 

We know that God did not created Eve the same way as Adam and God did not breath Life into her as he did with Adam. 

Then how did Eve was in the Life.

There is one way as to how Eve had the Life and this is that she got it from Adam.

Eve inherited the Life from Adam.

As Adam was in the Life, so was "his offspring Eve.

This one of the principles for the offsprings to be born by default in their Fathers Inheritance. 

Later on after the fall when Adam was in the death Inheritance, his children were born by DEFAULT in the death Inheritance of the parents, at that time till Abraham every one in the world was in the death Inheritance ir Adamic Inheritance with came not only with the death Inheritance, but their place of Inheritance after their phycical  death. 

Hi bro Ycf,

I am glad that you're open-minded delving deeper into the matter. God's word is intended to apply it that way too. (2Tm.3:16) We open our Bible.

"What about Cain, or what about the other "thief" who mocked, and what about Esau?"

The criterion regarding Cain, up to and including the thief who mocked the Lord Jesus, is the same for all people, namely their faith in God. And we can't find that with Cain nor with the thief, so they did not come into Paradise with Abraham!
 

"God breath Life into Adam, and Adam was in the Life, same Life that was in his Creator."

When Adam was created by God he became a living soul.  His life did come from God, but it was not equal to God.  For the Most High is a quickening Spirit.
The Lord Jesus was born of God, and therefore did not have to consider being equal to God as robbery.  (Ph.2: 6) He Jesus is called the second or better Adam because He is God and has a quickening Spirit. (1Cor.15:45)
 

"We know that God did not created Eve the same way as Adam and God did not breath Life into her as he did with Adam."

That God breathed the breath of life into Eve as He did Adam, is not denied by the Bible.
It does say in Genesis 1:27 that God created them 'male and female'. This presupposes no further special differences, except for the rib of Adam.
 

"Eve inherited the Life from Adam."

Except that being made of Adam's "bone and flesh", she also became a "living soul" by God.  Not Adam but God Himself was still the Creator, both of Adam and Eve.
Moreover, this makes no difference to Eve's nature at all, both she and her husband Adam are very good by nature. (Gen.1:31)
 

"As Adam was in the Life, so was "his offspring Eve."

So Eve does not belong to the offspring of Adam, but she is his equal partner.
 

"This one of the principles for the offsprings to be born by default in their Fathers Inheritance."

As mentioned, Adam is not the father of Eve, but God is just as with Adam the Father of Eve.

The children of Adam, Cain, Abel, Seth, and all his other sons and daughters, none of them inherited a sinful nature from Adam. That wasn't possible either, because Adam was of very good origin and later became a sinner, through his own sinful acts.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ez.18:20)

Moreover, the term "original sin" was not only completely unknown to the OT Jews, it is also not mentioned or assumed anywhere in the NT of the Bible!
Original sin is a devilish term, with which Augustine was inspired and has been developed by many in the church into corpus doctrinae, but it does not appear in God's word!
The curse of original sin prevents even the children of God (Jn.1:12) from thinking well about themselves just like their Father.
This is what an OT prophet wrote:

'For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
'I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.' (Ps.139:13-14)

Ode to man, in honor of God the Father.

God bless you bro.

[Your closest friendnt]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Paradise is not captivity. Its a comfortable place where Lazarus is comforted on Abraham's bossom.

The abv verse doesnt mean literally, Jesus raised to heaven not within 3 days but resurrected within 3 days n still on earth n He raised to heaven 40 days later from Mt Zion alone, didnt bring any souls with Him.

When Jesus open the seal circa 90 AD the souls of saints are still under the earth, Rev 5:3 And nobody in heaven or on earth or UNDER the earth (paradise gehena) are able to open the seal.....

Prophet Daniel will inherit his part at the end of days, not taken with Jesus to heaven yet.

Daniel 12:13 ...you will rest n rise for ur inheritance (heaven) at the end of days.

Its at the end of days by the rapture of 1 Thes 4:16 Daniel will rise.

Noah was the seed of Adam.

Noah in the death Inheritance which was pass onto him from Adam his forefather. 

Adam could not have access to the tree of Life. 

Adam and Noah worship God, they wanted God the Creator to be their God and he was their God as they were in the death Inheritance. 

Their God is the one who blocked their access to the tree of Life. 

Studying the events we have people in the death Inheritance with belief in God their Creator and we see how God approach them and help them.

Adam after his disobedience and as a result in the death Inheritance together with his seed after him as they were in death God still approach them and accepted their belief in him and help them, God did not refused to be their God.

The peculiar situation was that some of the offsprings of Adam, and thus in Adam's death Inheritance were judge by God and were called "righteous ".

So we have a very peculiar situation, we have direct descendants from Adam while in death and in self righteousness. 

This is the question; did those righteous people had access to the tree of Life. 

Because it was their God who had blocked the access for man to the tree of Life.

God had said that only when man eats from the tree of life will have Life unto himself and not the same Life he had before at the time of his Creation, the Life Adam got from his Creator was as we see subject to death upon a disobedience to God. 

In other words Adam had to remain in full obedience to God.

Adam lived with the fear of death upon his disobedience. 

Adam had the burden to remain in the Life of God by remaining in full obedience to him.

This is the Life God had and he gave to man, and he said: there is a life which only the tree of Life can give and not me, and he went on to say; if man eats from that tree of Life, HE WILL LIVE FOREVER. 

This is the same words Jesus Christ said: if you believe in me " YOU WILL NEVER DIE". 

[Your closest friendnt]

30 minutes ago, Frits said:

Hi bro Ycf,

I am glad that you're open-minded delving deeper into the matter. God's word is intended to apply it that way too. (2Tm.3:16) We open our Bible.

"What about Cain, or what about the other "thief" who mocked, and what about Esau?"

The criterion regarding Cain, up to and including the thief who mocked the Lord Jesus, is the same for all people, namely their faith in God. And we can't find that with Cain nor with the thief, so they did not come into Paradise with Abraham!
 

"God breath Life into Adam, and Adam was in the Life, same Life that was in his Creator."

When Adam was created by God he became a living soul.  His life did come from God, but it was not equal to God.  For the Most High is a quickening Spirit.
The Lord Jesus was born of God, and therefore did not have to consider being equal to God as robbery.  (Ph.2: 6) He Jesus is called the second or better Adam because He is God and has a quickening Spirit. (1Cor.15:45)
 

"We know that God did not created Eve the same way as Adam and God did not breath Life into her as he did with Adam."

That God breathed the breath of life into Eve as He did Adam, is not denied by the Bible.
It does say in Genesis 1:27 that God created them 'male and female'. This presupposes no further special differences, except for the rib of Adam.
 

"Eve inherited the Life from Adam."

Except that being made of Adam's "bone and flesh", she also became a "living soul" by God.  Not Adam but God Himself was still the Creator, both of Adam and Eve.
Moreover, this makes no difference to Eve's nature at all, both she and her husband Adam are very good by nature. (Gen.1:31)
 

"As Adam was in the Life, so was "his offspring Eve."

So Eve does not belong to the offspring of Adam, but she is his equal partner.
 

"This one of the principles for the offsprings to be born by default in their Fathers Inheritance."

As mentioned, Adam is not the father of Eve, but God is just as with Adam the Father of Eve.

The children of Adam, Cain, Abel, Seth, and all his other sons and daughters, none of them inherited a sinful nature from Adam. That wasn't possible either, because Adam was of very good origin and later became a sinner, through his own sinful acts.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ez.18:20)

Moreover, the term "original sin" was not only completely unknown to the OT Jews, it is also not mentioned or assumed anywhere in the NT of the Bible!
Original sin is a devilish term, with which Augustine was inspired and has been developed by many in the church into corpus doctrinae, but it does not appear in God's word!
The curse of original sin prevents even the children of God (Jn.1:12) from thinking well about themselves just like their Father.
This is what an OT prophet wrote:

'For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
'I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.' (Ps.139:13-14)

Ode to man, in honor of God the Father.

God bless you bro.

           ***

30 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Noah was the seed of Adam.

Noah in the death Inheritance which was pass onto him from Adam his forefather. 

Adam could not have access to the tree of Life. 

Adam and Noah worship God, they wanted God the Creator to be their God and he was their God as they were in the death Inheritance. 

Their God is the one who blocked their access to the tree of Life. 

Studying the events we have people in the death Inheritance with belief in God their Creator and we see how God approach them and help them.

Adam after his disobedience and as a result in the death Inheritance together with his seed after him as they were in death God still approach them and accepted their belief in him and help them, God did not refused to be their God.

The peculiar situation was that some of the offsprings of Adam, and thus in Adam's death Inheritance were judge by God and were called "righteous ".

So we have a very peculiar situation, we have direct descendants from Adam while in death and in self righteousness. 

This is the question; did those righteous people had access to the tree of Life. 

Because it was their God who had blocked the access for man to the tree of Life.

God had said that only when man eats from the tree of life will have Life unto himself and not the same Life he had before at the time of his Creation, the Life Adam got from his Creator was as we see subject to death upon a disobedience to God. 

In other words Adam had to remain in full obedience to God.

Adam lived with the fear of death upon his disobedience. 

Adam had the burden to remain in the Life of God by remaining in full obedience to him.

This is the Life God had and he gave to man, and he said: there is a life which only the tree of Life can give and not me, and he went on to say; if man eats from that tree of Life, HE WILL LIVE FOREVER. 

This is the same words Jesus Christ said: if you believe in me " YOU WILL NEVER DIE". 

Hi bro Frits, 

I am not ignoring your input, I would love to discuss them. 

But please, have a look at what have just posted because I had not finished my earlier post, I fallen asleep. 

(I do not mean I died when I said "I fall asleep ". I man has the right to fall asleep and not died. It means I am not awake, I am asleep, but not in a comma, in my sleep I talk, laugh, fight, swear, snore, call names, DREAM and some times I walk around even doing things in safety and sometimes not, how strange)

And this the question I was working on; 

Does righteousness in an descendant of Adam and thus in death, and by DEFAULT in the death Inheritance after death, 

Give Life to him, the same Life only the Tree of Life can give which God said is not acceptable to man.

And God said: when man eats from the fruit of the Tree of Life "death cannot come to him, even if he disobeys God the way Adam did. 

Or even if he sins.

Man remains in the Life while in disobedience and Sin. His sins and his disobedience cannot give him death, and this is simple...

Man is having the Life of the Tree of Life, not his own, man is in the Tree of Life.

Is anyone wants Man to be in death, no matter if he is in self righteousness or not, their is only one way to do that.

To kill the sourse of his Life, to give death to the Tree of Life. 

God bless 

[Frits]

13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not ignoring your input, I would love to discuss them. 

Good morning Ycf,

Okay, let's do that.I'm ready and waiting.

God bless.

[Diaste]

On 1/30/2021 at 8:26 PM, R. Hartono said:

If the fallen asleep alrdy in heaven why wud Jesus raise them to the cloud n take them to heaven ? Got no job to do ?

Hi,

 I think the souls of the dead are in a waiting place. The bodies are in the grave awaiting the resurrection. At the resurrection the bodies are raised, made new and incorruptible, and the soul is reunited with the body.

I think this as we see souls under the altar, not bodies, in Rev 6. 

Then in Rev 7 there is seen a great throng around the throne which came out of GT, and they are standing. Now they have bodies, confirmed as we see by the later description of the group.

Just saying.

[Your closest friendnt]

18 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi bro Ycf,

I am glad that you're open-minded delving deeper into the matter. God's word is intended to apply it that way too. (2Tm.3:16) We open our Bible.

"What about Cain, or what about the other "thief" who mocked, and what about Esau?"

The criterion regarding Cain, up to and including the thief who mocked the Lord Jesus, is the same for all people, namely their faith in God. And we can't find that with Cain nor with the thief, so they did not come into Paradise with Abraham!
 

 

Hi bro Frits,

The man Jesus Christ

(and we know all about his miraculus birth) upupon his phycical death on the Cross being from the same tribe as the King David, the tribe of Judah he went to where King David had gone before him when he died.

 Jesus Christ went to the Patriarch of the Israelites Abraham. 

Jesus Christ was in the righteousness of the Law, having been circumcised on the eight day after his birth.

The requirement for anyone to go to the Paradise of Abraham after their death it was that he has to be a descendant of Abraham from Issac to Jacob, and all the seed of Jacob. And he had to be Circumcised upon birth on the eight day.

Before the Law this is all it was asked from the eligible seed of Jacob, and as it was done when they were babies it was done with their parents consent. 

Their parents ushered them into the blessings of Abraham. 

Later the people who were born under the Law they had to be obedient to the Law, Circumcision alone was not enough, they had to obey their religious Calendar. 

Abraham as their Patriarch was the first one to be gathered to the "Paradise of Abraham ".

I cannot see how anyone else not being the descendant of Abraham could be found in the Paradise of Abraham? 

And we know that with the death of Jesus Christ everything has been changed. 

Which we will talk about Jesus Christ later on. 

The matter at hand is to find where the people who believe in God and lived before the death of Jesus Christ went upon their death. 

For Abraham and his descendants after him who died in his righteousness or in the righteousness of the Law we know that they gathered to him.

(And that is Before the Cross)

We have narrow down the question to those who believe in God outside Abraham's family. 

Whether they died before Abraham or after Abraham but before the death of Jesus Christ. 

We can start by saying that they are not found in Heaven and they are not found in the Bossom of Abraham. (Paradise of Abraham).

Where can they be found? 

We know that Jesus Christ found them after his death on the Cross when he descended to the place of the dead, right after he descended to the Abraham's Bosom or Abraham's Paradise.

Jesus Christ died for all and he had to preach the Gospel to all, as we were told by Jesus Christ himself. 

"that the dead in Jesus Christ will hear the Gospel first from him and they will be first to be born from above. Or to believe that he is the Christ of God and received forgiveness of sins and Life eternal. 

In other words when they believed in Jesus Christ they were in him.

In his Life and in his righteousness and in his Innocence.  

 

Quote

"God breath Life into Adam, and Adam was in the Life, same Life that was in his Creator."

When Adam was created by God he became a living soul.  His life did come from God, but it was not equal to God.  For the Most High is a quickening Spirit.
The Lord Jesus was born of God, and therefore did not have to consider being equal to God as robbery.  (Ph.2: 6) He Jesus is called the second or better Adam because He is God and has a quickening Spirit. (1Cor.15:45)

 

The Creator gave Adam of his Life. 

He was the Father of Adam, he was the one who brought him into being.

To be partakers of the Spirit and the Life of his Creator it did not make him "equal with his Creator ".

They are one in Spirit, they have of the same Spirit, that did not make Adam equal with his Creator. What is equal in this context? 

Adam never said that he is equal with his Creator, his Creator was not the Heavenly Father, hope that you have come to grips with making the distinction between the Creator and the Heavenly Father.  

The facts are as follows as all the disciples and Jesus Christ teach.

We cannot have at the same time both the Creator and Jesus Christ. 

We first had God who created all things, whom the Heavenly Father had sent to create all things.

And then we have Jesus Christ. 

God the Creator was borned from his mother Mary.

He did not have an earthly Father, his Father was the Heavenly Father. 

He first was God the Creator and humble himself to be born as in Bethlehem from Mary, he was the seed of the woman, the only one with the Life. 

He was the Life from the beginning. 

After the fall of Adam only his Creator was left with the Life. 

He was the one who had the Life, he was the one to enter our world through birth. 

 

Quote

 

"We know that God did not created Eve the same way as Adam and God did not breath Life into her as he did with Adam."

That God breathed the breath of life into Eve as He did Adam, is not denied by the Bible.
It does say in Genesis 1:27 that God created them 'male and female'. This presupposes no further special differences, except for the rib of Adam.
 

"Eve inherited the Life from Adam."

Except that being made of Adam's "bone and flesh", she also became a "living soul" by God.  Not Adam but God Himself was still the Creator, both of Adam and Eve.
Moreover, this makes no difference to Eve's nature at all, both she and her husband Adam are very good by nature. (Gen.1:31)
 

"As Adam was in the Life, so was "his offspring Eve."

So Eve does not belong to the offspring of Adam, but she is his equal partner.
 

"This one of the principles for the offsprings to be born by default in their Fathers Inheritance."

As mentioned, Adam is not the father of Eve, but God is just as with Adam the Father of Eve.

The children of Adam, Cain, Abel, Seth, and all his other sons and daughters, none of them inherited a sinful nature from Adam. That wasn't possible either, because Adam was of very good origin and later became a sinner, through his own sinful acts.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ez.18:20)

Moreover, the term "original sin" was not only completely unknown to the OT Jews, it is also not mentioned or assumed anywhere in the NT of the Bible!
Original sin is a devilish term, with which Augustine was inspired and has been developed by many in the church into corpus doctrinae, but it does not appear in God's word!
The curse of original sin prevents even the children of God (Jn.1:12) from thinking well about themselves just like their Father.
This is what an OT prophet wrote:

'For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
'I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.' (Ps.139:13-14)

Ode to man, in honor of God the Father.

God bless you bro.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[DeighAnn]

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Our earthly bodies CONTAIN our spiritual bodies, the flesh BREAKS OPEN so to speak, WE, our spiritual body spirit/soul go on to paradise.  

 

 

THINK OF HOW GOD WORKS. 

God WORKS by laws. 


FOR THE SAKE OF A DIFFERENT ANGLE ONLY TO POSSIBLY OPEN A NEW THOUGHT DIRECTION

Lets just say it was the "Law of Gravity" that Christs' death brought into being. 

ONCE GOD ENACTED THE LAW OF GRAVITY for Christ,

that same law WOULD HAVE TO APPLY TO ALL. IF IT DIDN'T apply to ALL, it couldn't apply to Christ.   

THAT IS WHY CHRIST COULDN'T RISE,  IF ALL NOT RISE.  

That is why "those who sleep" will be RETURNING NOT BEING RAISED OR RESURRECTED.    That is why we don't sorrow like the heathen.  God is the God of the living and not the dead.  

That is why those who sleep DON'T PERISH.  

There is no  "re-creation" OF A DEAD DECAYING BODY, IT IS GOING BACK TO DUST. 

because IT IS WRITTEN  

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus,  will God BRING with him.

THE WORD BRING 

71 AGO

To lead, bring, carry,

To lead with oneself, attach to oneself as an attendant

DON'T TWIST WHAT IS WRITTEN

1  Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

3498  NEKROI are used of the assembly of the dead.

 WHO WILL BE THE 'DEAD' WHEN CHRIST RETURNS?  THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST.  

 

LET ME ASK THE QUESTION THIS WAY. 

IS it to be supposed that the heavenly body remains HERE ON EARTH WITH THE DECAYING FLESH?  or THAT IT follows the spirit to heaven? ONLY to follow it back????   Are there some celestial bodies that have been stuck here on earth  for 6000 yrs?

If NO, then where would it be until the spirit returns?  God doesn't say we WILL BE RECEIVING ANOTHER BODY, but we HAVE TWO BODIES

 

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY?  WHO IS OUR EXAMPLE?  WHO DO WE FOLLOW?   WHO SHOWED US THE WAY?  WHO CHANGED THE WAY TO SALVATION FROM THE LAW TO THE FAITH?
 

WHY IS THE HOUR COMING?  WHY ISN'T IT THEN?  BECAUSE THE 'NEW LAW' OVER DEATH HAS NOT  BEEN ENACTED, WON'T BE  UNTIL CHRIST FINISHES THE WORK ON THE CROSS.  IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET.  BUT ITS ON ITS WAY.  IF NOTHING CHANGES, THEN WHY ARE THE DEAD SEEN COMING OUT OF THE GRAVES????????? 
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;

John 5:27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

DID THE GRAVES BECOME 'SHUT' AGAIN?????????  WAS THE POWER OVER DEATH ONLY A COUPLE DAYS AND THEN REVERTED BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE THE LORD DIED FOR US????

 

 

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

ARE YOU A SOUL RIGHT NOW?  ARE YOU A SOUL IN AN EARTHLY BODY?  ARE THEY SOULS UP IN HEAVEN?  THEN WHY OH WHY WOULD ANYONE BELIEVE THEY ARE WITHOUT BODIES?

ONCE AGAIN, WHAT SPIRITS HAVE NO BODIES OF THEIR OWN???
THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT EVIL SPIRITS THAT NEED TO BE CAST OUT.  EVER HEARD OF A GOOD ONE.  AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BRING UP THE HOLY SPIRIT, THANK YOU

 

When does this take place?????  AS SOON AS CHRIST GIVES UP THE SPIRIT, RENTS THE VEIL, AND CHANGES THE LAW OF DEATH. 
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

By one all die, BY ONE ALL ARE MADE ALIVE.

SATAN KILLED CHRIST THINKING HE COULD WIN BECAUSE HE HAD THAT CONTROL.  HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT CHRISTS DEATH WOULD MAKE HIM LOSE THE POWER AND BONDAGE THAT DEATH HAD PREVIOUSLY HELD OR HE WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT.  imho

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Frits]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Hi,

 I think the souls of the dead are in a waiting place. The bodies are in the grave awaiting the resurrection. At the resurrection the bodies are raised, made new and incorruptible, and the soul is reunited with the body.

I think this as we see souls under the altar, not bodies, in Rev 6. 

Then in Rev 7 there is seen a great throng around the throne which came out of GT, and they are standing. Now they have bodies, confirmed as we see by the later description of the group.

Just saying.

Hi Diaste,

"I think the souls of the dead are in a waiting place. The bodies are in the grave awaiting the resurrection."

You do not need childlike faith for your hypothese, but foolishness!  ('Thou fool' 1Cor.15:36)

Because what about those dead people who never got a grave?  Think, for example, of people whose bodies burned or who died by explosion?  And what about people who drowned and whose bodies were eaten by the fish?
A natural body is sown and definitely disappears - unless it is clothed with incorruption by the Lord Jesus -  in completion, the existing spiritual body is brought out from heaven: resurrection completed!

"I think this as we see souls under the altar, not bodies"

Just because “souls” under the altar are spoken of in Rev. 6:9, does not mean that they do not have a spiritual body!  For every person has a temporary physical body, but also an eternal spiritual body.

When it says that in the days of Noah only eight souls were saved, you wonder if they had a body too?  They did.  Then why not when it comes to the heavenly?  Or do you only believe what you can see and feel? (Jh.20:29)

'for the things which are seen (physical body) are temporal; but the things which are not seen (spiritual body) are eternal .' (2Cor.4:18)

'There is a natural body, AND there is a spiritual body.' (1Cor.15:44)

Pay attention, it does not say 'after that there comes' a spiritual body, but 'and', so two bodies.
That's why Paul wrote in his second Corinthian letter:

'For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2Cor.5:1)

[Starise]

30 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

1  Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

3498  NEKROI are used of the assembly of the dead.

 WHO WILL BE THE 'DEAD' WHEN CHRIST RETURNS?  THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST.  

I like the way you are reasoning your thoughts. I think the dead here though are the "dead in Christ" saved believers.

Certainly those who have taken the mark are spiritually dead. I believe this is a different context meaning believers. The only issue with this is that now somehow the bodies need to be reunited with those souls that are already dead. So many say the soul simply is reunited with an improved version of our old body. Body goes down>soul goes up>soul reunites with body.

Remember the Bible says we will be raised like Christ was raised. He was in the same rejuvinated body. Right?