What part of us goes to be with God in death?

[Dennis1209]

15 hours ago, JohnD said:

Luke 23:46 (AV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 (AV)
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 12:6–7 (AV)
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

That's a good question. Just some of my biblical thoughts, and may not be correct?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. [emphasis mine].

The above seems to imply "all" human spirits, regardless of whether believers or non believers.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [emphasis mine].

two-edged sword. While the Word of God is comforting and nourishing to those who believe, it is a tool of judgment and execution for those who have not committed themselves to Jesus Christ. The division of soul and spirit, I don't think these terms describe two separate entities (any more than “thoughts and intents” do) but are used as one might say “heart and soul” to express fullness (cf. Luke 10:27; Acts 4:32; see note on 1 Thess. 5:23). Elsewhere these two terms are used interchangeably to describe man’s immaterial self, his eternal inner person.

Just as God's heavenly family were created with eternal life, so are our spirits. Our "souls" are who we are; our emotions, likes and dislikes, our individual personalities, etc. We (our spirits and souls) will eventually return and stand before the Lord whom gave them, for judgment; either the Bema Seat of Christ, or the Great White Throne judgment.

Revelation 6:9 (KJV) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10.  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [emphasis mine].

The above saints are not in the flesh, they are in the spirit and still have their individual souls of who they are, and in who they are in, Christ Jesus. 

There's just many things like this, and wrapping our mind around how "three persons" are One in the Trinity; that we won't understand until we get to Heaven. We just have faith, trust and believe. 

 

[Riverwalker]

17 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Your soul goes to gehenna.

A. To be absent from the body is to be present with Christ

Second Corinthians 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

This body is nothing more than a worm food factory on the hoof, a corrupt flesh that has nothing to do with us.  It is an earth suit that allows to get around this rock

 

B. we are not going anywhere, we are, the bible says, already seated with God in heavenly places

Ephesians 4:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

C. Death Hades are for the lost not for the Christian

Revelation 20 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

D And we will not receive back in resurrection this corrupt flesh 

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

 

E And Finally....heaven is NOT our final destination. it is where we await resurrection day into our New Bodies, where we will dwell together in New Jerusalem with the Lord

Revelation 21: 1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Riverwalker

[R. Hartono]

8 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

A. To be absent from the body is to be present with Christ

Second Corinthians 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

This body is nothing more than a worm food factory on the hoof, a corrupt flesh that has nothing to do with us.  It is an earth suit that allows to get around this rock

 

B. we are not going anywhere, we are, the bible says, already seated with God in heavenly places

Ephesians 4:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

C. Death Hades are for the lost not for the Christian

Revelation 20 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

D And we will not receive back in resurrection this corrupt flesh 

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

 

E And Finally....heaven is NOT our final destination. it is where we await resurrection day into our New Bodies, where we will dwell together in New Jerusalem with the Lord

Revelation 21: 1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

 

 

The story of poor Lazarus n the rich man told us that Abraham is in gehena n there is a gap dividing the good n the sinners.

If the saints of early church are already in heaven then there will be no use to rapture them as written in 1 Thes 4:16. For the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive n remain will be caugh up to gather with them to the cloud......

[Frits]

9 hours ago, Josheb said:

And yet we also know Jesus' body also went to be with God. 

Is it reasonable to infer or otherwise assume the body of Jesus was walking around without its soul or spirit? If that's what you or anyone else believes I would truly like to see the case for that view. Otherwise, I recommend that we don't proof-text individual verses and not abandon reason and logic but instead rely on whole scripture, not just the part we like because they support our position. 

The Lord Jesus has a spiritual body with which He moves in the world of spirits, the Kingdom of God. (Rev.1:13-17)
With that body He went to Hades after death, to preach His Gospel of salvation.  You can read this in 1Pt.3:18-19:

'..being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison'

That spiritual body of the Lord Jesus also enables Him to appear with it in the material world, then it has flesh and bones.  (Lk.24:39)
The spiritual body of the Lord Jesus has 'swallowed up' His dead physical body in victory.  (1Cor.15: 54)
The moment my physical body dies (unless it already was glorified at the second coming of the Lord Jesus!), I too will make use of this spiritual dwelling place. (Eph.2:22)
It's a comforting thought that if we lose our bodies, we'll have 1 more in heaven to move on with.  (2Cor.5:1)

[Frits]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

Technically, to "commend" something into another's hand need not literally mean the possess that thing in their hands. Scripturally speaking many things are said to be in God's hands that are not in fact literally with God. I'm sure a study of "commend" and "God's hands" in scripture go a good way in understanding Jesus' Calvary words. 

It would help if you could say what your own opinion is from the technical rhetoric.  I am convinced that the Lord Jesus commanded His spirit into the hands of the Father when he died, as it says in the Bible. (Lk.23:46)

[Your closest friendnt]

23 hours ago, JohnD said:

Luke 23:46 (AV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 (AV)
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 12:6–7 (AV)
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

In the following passage Jesus Christ is telling the disciples that they see him, the real him, the resurrected Jesus Christ and not his Spirit. 

The truth is that what the disciples had just witness made think that they were dealing with the Spirit of Jesus Christ because they had just witness the following. 

--Luke 24:36,37--

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 

And Jesus said to them: 

 

--Luke 24: 38,39--

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

"the wounds on his hands and feet" 

Jesus Christ positively identified himself to them, beyond a reasonable doubt, with a stronger emphasis when he sow them the mark of his would on his side, the next time with Philip. 

And further he asked them to give him something to eat from their own bread, for a special reason. 

 24:39-- 

Berean Literal Bible
See My hands and My feet, that I am He. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see Me having."

King James Bible
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

New King James Version
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

New American Standard Bible
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you plainly see that I have.

          *****

To be fair to the Ecclesiastes when he is referring to the Spirit and Body and he is not mentioning the Soul of man, we should not misconstrued his saying, as he is referring to the man after he has died. 

Ecclesiastes is saying that the body of man will never be again united with his Spirit as it was before he died. 

He excludes any possibility. 

His Father had said similar things but as a prophet he said that only the body of the Holy one from God will no see corruption, the one whom God will raised from the dead before his body see corruption and who will never died again. 

Ecclesiastes knew about Abraham and that God had set him apart from the rest of the world in Life and also in death.

He never spoken against it, and he thoroughly understood it, and he had the hope that they the people of God they will not remain in the Bosom of Abraham and apart of their God forever, that the time will come that God will open the way to him and not only for the Israelites but also for the rest of the world. 

That was his hope that he will remained in the Bossom of Abraham till God do what he had promised to them to take them from there to be with him. 

He understood that he will take them as they were waiting for him and to be with him but without their bodies who had turned unto dust.

       *****

Solomon also understood that God has made the distinction between Man and the beast.

That only man was made in his image and not the animal kingdom. 

With this statement he may also allure that God will give Life to Man so he can be with him,  but he has judge the devil to remain out from Heaven forever.

Man who was not created in Heaven but on the earth , will have a Heavenly Inheritance, and the Devil who was created in Heaven will never returned back to Heaven. 

 

[Wesley L]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:58 AM, JohnD said:

Luke 23:46 (AV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 (AV)
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 12:6–7 (AV)
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

God made men out of dirt and breathed into men the breath of life. (Gen2)
I have always wondered, where was I before I was born? Where was my soul?

My belief is that when we die, our soul returns to God. The breath of life that went into my body, went back to God.
At the moment of death, the soul doesn't perceive the passing of time. Just as if we are asleep. (1 Thes 4)
The moment we awake is the moment in our resurrected bodies, the moment that we see Jesus Christ in all His glory.

This is how I can match scripture. that when we die, we return to God. When we die, the moment we reopen our eyes we are with God.
I don't believe in a waiting room where souls are literally waiting. When bible mention it, it is figuratively.

• When a born again believer dies, the moment he reopens his eyes, he will see Jesus the Lord and Savior coming out of the sky and we will meet Him in the air.
• When a sinning unbeliever dies, the moment he reopens his eyes, he will see Jesus the Judge. (John 5:29)

 

 

[Frits]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

If the saints of early church are already in heaven then there will be no use to rapture them

Hi Hartono,

And that's right, these first Christians are already with the Lord Jesus.  The one does not exclude the other.  The remaining Christians on earth are being raptured.

 

God bless.

[Frits]

2 hours ago, Wesley L said:

My belief is that when we die, our soul returns to God. The breath of life that went into my body, went back to God.
At the moment of death, the soul doesn't perceive the passing of time. Just as if we are asleep. (1 Thes 4)
The moment we awake is the moment in our resurrected bodies, the moment that we see Jesus Christ in all His glory.

Hi Wesley,

Do you realize that if you sleep you're not dead? And if you die as a Christian, your physical body does die, but your soul and your spirit do not die but live on with the Lord Jesus.
Also, your soul is not in a 'soul sleep', but you can perceive and communicate with your spiritual body.
Look at Moses (and Elijah), he had died but he met the Lord Jesus on the mountain, while this was not yet the resurrection.

God bless.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Frits

[Frits]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Then there was a body. Yes?

It may have been a spiritual body, but it was nonetheless a body. Yes? 

Whether physical or spiritual that Jesus had a body. Yes? 

In "Hades after death" he had a body. Yes? 

 

If I understand what you are saying correctly, Jesus still had a body after he died. It was a spiritual body and not a body of flesh and blood like the one he'd previous inhabited, like the one we now inhabit. Do I understand you correctly? 

Do you agree with Frits, @JohnD?

Yes,

Yes,

Yes,

Yes,

and Yes.