Billiards Ball Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 22 hours ago, Open7 said: I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. Here in Hebrews 3 verses 6 and 14 below (there are other verses that give this same vibe but I can’t recall them) “But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.” “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.” It says ‘if indeed we hold firmly’. I know you can say you have given your life to God, but many will not hold fast, but what if they did give their life to God but never went very far with it. I figured that when your saved your saved, that’s it, but these verses concern me a little for some people I know. Can anyone help? Thanks The Bible is inerrant and contains no contradictions: “But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory [and thankfully, each of us who is born again will do so].” “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end [and at the very end when we meet Jesus, our conviction will be glorified].” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Adstar said: I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. I will say this again for those that need it. Hebrews was written BECAUSE of the early converts being pressured and victimized and abused with the express idea of getting them to turn back to the old sacrificial system. I guess some had done this and thus the apostle is vehement on the subject. If, as some say, this was not possible, why write the letter at all. It is self evident that we are individuals with choices and can be swayed by persecution and what others might say. If you do not see that throughout the scriptures, then I can say no more than I have already said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: I will say this again for those that need it. Hebrews was written BECAUSE of the early converts being pressured and victimized and abused with the express idea of getting them to turn back to the old sacrificial system. I guess some had done this and thus the apostle is vehement on the subject. If, as some say, this was not possible, why write the letter at all. It is self evident that we are individuals with choices and can be swayed by persecution and what others might say. If you do not see that throughout the scriptures, then I can say no more than I have already said. Justin--as I recall, you appreciate Dr. Heiser. I think I got that right. Have you listened to his sermon on Naaman? Search YouTube for 'Naaman's Belief in YHWH (sermon)' Consider that when a person is saved--that one is not only indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but is also hidden with Christ in God. That the work of the Cross removes us from the old Adam and into the Second Adam--Christ. The Lord is well able to keep that one and although an individual may stray and even attempt to deny his redeemer--the Lord understands and His Grace is sufficient. Once a son--always a son--by Birth. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Alive said: Have you listened to his sermon on Naaman? Yes I have and Yeshua brought this up as an example to unbelieving Israelis in His home town. The point is BELIEF and LOYALTY, just like in the Tanakh. Unbelief is what that is all about. God showed that a pagan that believed in Him was more worthy than the Children of Israel in their unbelief. We have been given sovereign free will. God does NOT want to let any of His people go or be lost. However, He honors His own words and character and will not force any to believe. He will not force anyone to not turn away either. If you have BELIEVING LOYALTY, then you are safe. Hebrew's "sin" was the sin of turning back to unbelief and following the old ways of temple sacrifices. Hebrews is a good reminder to everyone to stick to the race and not give up regardless of circumstances. If a believer turns his back on Yeshua and His Gospel, then Hebrews (and other places), tell us that there is no more salvation as you have put the Cross of Christ to an open shame. Hebrews is there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 23 hours ago, Open7 said: Can anyone help? If you are looking for scripture that shows that you cannot lose your salvation, Romans 11:29 explains it. Salvation itself is a gift, and God does not take back His gifts. The scripture below says irrevocable meaning: not able to be changed, reversed, or recovered; final. Romans 11:29 Amplified Bible (AMP) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable [for He does not withdraw what He has given, nor does He change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Justin Adams said: Yes I have and Yeshua brought this up as an example to unbelieving Israelis in His home town. The point is BELIEF and LOYALTY, just like in the Tanakh. Unbelief is what that is all about. God showed that a pagan that believed in Him was more worthy than the Children of Israel in their unbelief. We have been given sovereign free will. God does NOT want to let any of His people go or be lost. However, He honors His own words and character and will not force any to believe. He will not force anyone to not turn away either. If you have BELIEVING LOYALTY, then you are safe. Hebrew's "sin" was the sin of turning back to unbelief and following the old ways of temple sacrifices. Hebrews is a good reminder to everyone to stick to the race and not give up regardless of circumstances. If a believer turns his back on Yeshua and His Gospel, then Hebrews (and other places), tell us that there is no more salvation as you have put the Cross of Christ to an open shame. Hebrews is there for a reason. Brother---you hang your hat on a contested portion of scripture. Do you thoroughly understand what happens to an individual who is 'born from above'? The actual change that takes place? What is 'regeneration'? These things are not allegorical. They are real time and space events that conduct a very real and specific change and related events--relative to the individual. All doctrine must bow to the Cross. There is nothing more fundamental vis a vis, the believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, Alive said: Brother---you hang your hat on a contested portion of scripture. You mentioned Dr Heiser. Perhaps listen to his lectures and scholarly exegesis of Hebrews. I am not just speaking to you, but the thousands that will also read this. It is only 'contested' because you do not agree with it. Study Hebrews well. Be sure to be well equipped and ignore man-ology and doctrines after the first century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: You mentioned Dr Heiser. Perhaps listen to his lectures and scholarly exegesis of Hebrews. I am not just speaking to you, but the thousands that will also read this. It is only 'contested' because you do not agree with it. Study Hebrews well. Be sure to be well equipped and ignore man-ology and doctrines after the first century. Michael is very good on things, but not infallible. I don't see that he has a good understanding of the new birth. I view Hebrews, James, etc. in the manner I do because of the total body of scripture available relative to our common salvation and the finished work of Christ and the 'eternal purpose' of God in light of the limitations of man and His over abundant Grace and Mercy. Read my linked articles in my signature--they do a fair job of explaining my position. I have confabbed with Michael and he doesn't think I'm crazy, but I am certain I surprised him once or twice. One of the almost inevitable characteristics of scholars, is a level of narrow focus when a particular aspect of scripture is concentrated on. Don't get me wrong, I admire his work and his grasp of Grace, but he stops short. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 We cannot lose our salvation, but we can walk away from it God will never leave us nor forsake use, but we can turn away. The Christian life is not always easy, and some sin tries to drag us away, But I like what BK1110 said here On 1/27/2021 at 9:12 AM, BK1110 said: It's more like if they don't hold firmly then it proves they never actually gave their life to Christ in the first place. Most faith failures are because that the person never fully committed himself. But once you enter the fullness of God Humble submission and obedience is not at all difficult What is hard is trying to keep one foot in the world, and one foot in heaven 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Gal. 2:20 (NAS95S) “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts