Are Fossils evidence of evolution ....or are the evidence of fossils

[BeyondET]

21 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

What stands out distinctively for me are God's references to His Mathematics, to His Algorithms, to His Science.   Life from procreation to birth and then to death is a complete algorithm.   In Job, God asked Job if he was the one who [stretched the line][can we say TAPE MEASURE] measuring the Universe.   But the simplistic way of claiming He made all living things by adding dust to liquid and forming a MOLD + breathing life into it = Mathematics/Engineering/the Process Design/the Schematics/the Manufacturing Example/the Outcome [just like a plastic mold/injection mold/a potters mold/a sand mold].   

 

When we think about the examples of profession to achieve in this life like Doctor, Attorney, Engineer, Mathematician, a Laborer, a Designer, as a Scientist, we see God doing it (Yeshua is our Mediator between us the Father, that's a nice way of saying Yeshua is my Attorney in ALL Matters).

 

Man cannot say he ever was the first one to do something because we can find God being the Architect of it All!

Little lengthy and off topic but I guess the thread has fossilized anyhow but That’s a good verse Isaiah 40:12 speaks of Similar things. You mentioned earlier (Light) is the key that statement is spot on, especially when comes to time. Light is the basic foundation to perceive time from a earthly view point.

time is basically a perspective, it’s not a tangible thing per say, a person can not touch it literally but it is a perspective of a length like stretching out a line and perceiving.

God created the sun to sustain life of coarse but it is also our basic perspective tool of time. Earth has two perspectives of time of day depending on the view point. At the equator a day is perceived as 24 hours from that location on earth moving north it increases little by little until absolute north where the perspective of a day is literally one year. From both location one complete rotation around the sun can be 365 yrs long or 365 days using a sunrise to sunrise counting method.

Both are true from a perspective in one place or the other on earth. Moving out from earth the perspective increases greatly depending on the view point of light and there are many many view points and perspectives of time throughout the universe.

About the Bible creation and its length of time, when we read the six days from a human perspective it can only begin at day 4,

4,5,6 can be literally viewed perceived as 24 hrs or 1 yr. because that is when God created the perceiving tool/gear the sun to gauge time from man’s view point by counting how long do we see the light of the sun and it is known. bit of amazement is the star clock the Big Dipper and North Star it turns counterclockwise and is a 24 hour clock but is another perceiving tool to finite the time to hours without erecting a sun dial.

24 hours is the preferred perspective of time because not many people live absolute north on top of the North Pole but Santa Clause lol but point being days 1,2,3 and it’s length is solely from God’s perspective his view. 

we can’t just place the sun in those days and say yup God meant for man to perceive those days as 24 hrs or one year or billions of years it just can’t be done and be 100% true because no man has viewed creation from God’s point of view.

But the latter days can be 3 days or 3 years of time depending on the perspective of it. Rather a person believes in a young earth or old earth doesn’t matter we can eat our cake and ice cream at the time along with God.

first three days of creation time is from God’s perspective of evening and morning , the last three days of creation time are from our perspective of evening and morning and God’s perspective. Unless day 3 and day 4 are flopped hahaha 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by BeyondET

[Sparks]

On 3/26/2021 at 7:52 AM, The Barbarian said:

There are many other specimens of A. afarensis.

Nope.   Easily found in the literature.    The "First Family" was an entire group of them, found only a few kilometers from where Lucy was found.

This species is one of the best known of our ancestors due to a number of major discoveries including a set of fossil footprints and a fairly complete fossil skeleton of a female nicknamed 'Lucy'.

The ‘First Family’ - a group of A. afarensis fossils discovered in Hadar, Ethiopia in 1975. It became known as the ‘First Family’ because it contained fossils from nine adults and four children. Some unknown disaster overcame this family group, burying them all at the same time. This important find has allowed scientists to gather insights into the biology and development of a single fossil species. It also provided evidence that this species lived in small groups based on possible family bonds.

 https://australian.museum/learn/science/human-evolution/australopithecus-afarensis/

No, and I don't think you were lying.   Yes, many of the creationists who peddled that lie to you knew the truth.  To be fair, some creationist retracted the claim when they realized that they had been lied to by other creationists.  

It was Johanson and the museum curators that lied when there was only Lucy, and no one knew what kind of feet she had, but they made them up artistically.

[Sparks]

On 3/29/2021 at 9:56 PM, The Barbarian said:

Nope.   New species.  "Kind" is so vague and changeable, it has no meaning whatever. 

New Kind, above species. 

[Sparks]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:50 AM, The Barbarian said:

Natural selection.   God is a lot wiser and more powerful than creationists would like Him to be.

Direct observation.   Can't do better than that.

No.  It's mitochondrial DNA which has nothing to do with the DNA in the nucleus of cells.   It suggests that most (but not all) of the current species on earth are about the same age, which is what the "molecular clock" that verifies evolution is based on.   The relatively few exceptions (apparently 10%) to this are populations that were in environments that changed rapidly, which meant they had to evolve rapidly, or population that have been around a long time in a constant environment,and genes indicate that they are very old.   And since we directly observe speciation, this is confirmed to be the case.

You've confused species, which do change rapidly in geologic time, with higher taxa that are more stable.

Moreover, our own mitochondrial DNA indicates our current population evolved about 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.  Which is about what the fossil record indicates.  And the researcher found that some species were a lot older.    So much for YE creationism.

Did you really think this would undermine evolutionary theory?

 

There is no direct observation.  Sorry.  You have personally seen none of it.

[Guest kingdombrat]

5 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Little lengthy and off topic but I guess the thread has fossilized anyhow but That’s a good verse Isaiah 40:12 speaks of Similar things. You mentioned earlier (Light) is the key that statement is spot on, especially when comes to time. Light is the basic foundation to perceive time from a earthly view point.

time is basically a perspective, it’s not a tangible thing per say, a person can not touch it literally but it is a perspective of a length like stretching out a line and perceiving.

God created the sun to sustain life of coarse but it is also our basic perspective tool of time. Earth has two perspectives of time of day depending on the view point. At the equator a day is perceived as 24 hours from that location on earth moving north it increases little by little until absolute north where the perspective of a day is literally one year. From both location one complete rotation around the sun can be 365 yrs long or 365 days using a sunrise to sunrise counting method.

Both are true from a perspective in one place or the other on earth. Moving out from earth the perspective increases greatly depending on the view point of light and there are many many view points and perspectives of time throughout the universe.

About the Bible creation and its length of time, when we read the six days from a human perspective it can only begin at day 4,

4,5,6 can be literally viewed perceived as 24 hrs or 1 yr. because that is when God created the perceiving tool/gear the sun to gauge time from man’s view point by counting how long do we see the light of the sun and it is known. bit of amazement is the star clock the Big Dipper and North Star it turns counterclockwise and is a 24 hour clock but is another perceiving tool to finite the time to hours without erecting a sun dial.

24 hours is the preferred perspective of time because not many people live absolute north on top of the North Pole but Santa Clause lol but point being days 1,2,3 and it’s length is solely from God’s perspective his view. 

we can’t just place the sun in those days and say yup God meant for man to perceive those days as 24 hrs or one year or billions of years it just can’t be done and be 100% true because no man has viewed creation from God’s point of view.

But the latter days can be 3 days or 3 years of time depending on the perspective of it. Rather a person believes in a young earth or old earth doesn’t matter we can eat our cake and ice cream at the time along with God.

first three days of creation time is from God’s perspective of evening and morning , the last three days of creation time are from our perspective of evening and morning and God’s perspective. Unless day 3 and day 4 are flopped hahaha 

 

The Hebrew People were on a 30 day Calendar Cycle however.   They were on average 5 days shorter per yer vs our 365 day year Calendar at around 360 days per year at 24 hours per day.   I am 265 days older presently to their Calendar.

 

And to the many things we have given to our understanding of Scripture is saying here, we still haven't entertained what some Jewish Rabbi's think which we know from the viewpoint of the Protestants, they call it a [Gap Theory].   My only interest is what change of events would we be discussing if Genesis 1:1 meant completed.   Then Genesis 1:2 begins from a completed Earth in Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 [is] the result of God's destruction (which some claim the [Meteor] that crashed into Earth setting off the "Ice Age" was when Satan himself come smashing into the face of Earth) from the boot God gave to him.

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:03 AM, The Barbarian said:

We are apes too.   Lucy differed from most apes by having an upright stance.

We are the same classification of all life forms that God created.   I therefore can accept being called of the [ape family].  I just do not buy the evolution of ape to human.   I see the structure to which God chose in our appearances being similar in many ways.   But I do not see it being relative to Species becoming evolved to a point of becoming a new Species.

On 3/26/2021 at 10:03 AM, The Barbarian said:

No feet were assigned.   However other afarensis fossils did include feet, which are more humanlike than apelike.

The studies and educated responses that I presented earlier were from majority [atheist] Scientists who make the claim [all] discovered were more "ape like." 

On 3/26/2021 at 10:03 AM, The Barbarian said:

It comes down to evidence.  And the other A. afarensis fossils do show humanlike feet.  No point in denying the fact.

That's the opposite of what the explanations and even wiki backed it up.   

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:09 AM, The Barbarian said:

How would you do that?  How would they even identify which dust went to which bone?  If you can do that, you have a great career ahead of you as a paleontologist; no other paleontologist can do something like that.

Recently, Scientists discovered the Viking people were not as their mythical tale had painted them to be.   They claim the blond hair blue eyed people were majority darker haired and they found burial ground in 3 major settings.   The Viking people lived in the obvious Norway, but also Sweden and Denmark.   They took the bones and were able to drill tiny dust particles and then sample to see if these were [FAMILY] or what else could be.

^

I mentioned this story because they have the Sciences now to extract minute dust samples and tell which bones belong to who or what.

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:24 AM, The Barbarian said:

They didn't have her feet, but they did have ankle bones that are diagnostic for flat feet:

Non-human primates have a posteriorly directed tibial arch angle, while most humans have an anteriorly directed tibial arch angle. Those humans with a posteriorly directed tibial arch angle (8%) have significantly lower talocalcaneal and talar declination angles, both measures of an asymptomatic flatfoot. Application of these results to the hominin fossil record reveals that a well developed rearfoot arch had evolved in Australopithecus afarensis. However, as in humans today, Australopithecus populations exhibited individual variation in foot morphology and arch development, and “Lucy” (A.L. 288-1), a 3.18 Myr-old female Australopithecus, likely possessed asymptomatic flat feet. Additional distal tibiae from the Plio-Pleistocene show variation in tibial arch angles, including two early Homo tibiae that also have slightly posteriorly directed tibial arch angles.

Conclusions/Significance

This study finds that the rearfoot arch was present in the genus Australopithecus. However, the female Australopithecus afarensis “Lucy” has an ankle morphology consistent with non-pathological flat-footedness. This study suggests that, as in humans today, there was variation in arch development in Plio-Pleistocene hominins.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3010983/

And now you know why researchers knew.

 

I believe the bone placement [plus lack of feet] could be clues to maybe she died from lower trauma which would leave the bone they found in the position they claim.   It's not like there's pictures, just someone's word.   When did someone's word become the absolute to a theory?

[BeyondET]

46 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

The Hebrew People were on a 30 day Calendar Cycle however.   They were on average 5 days shorter per yer vs our 365 day year Calendar at around 360 days per year at 24 hours per day.   I am 265 days older presently to their Calendar.

 

And to the many things we have given to our understanding of Scripture is saying here, we still haven't entertained what some Jewish Rabbi's think which we know from the viewpoint of the Protestants, they call it a [Gap Theory].   My only interest is what change of events would we be discussing if Genesis 1:1 meant completed.   Then Genesis 1:2 begins from a completed Earth in Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 [is] the result of God's destruction (which some claim the [Meteor] that crashed into Earth setting off the "Ice Age" was when Satan himself come smashing into the face of Earth) from the boot God gave to him.

Well they use what modern people call leap year, that was 384 days long, with 29 and 30 days months, Leap years occur at 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th year in cycle. So in the long run your not 265 days older.

Gap theory is just that a theory, If the earth was broken down to the smallest atom, it is still earth but in little billions billions of micro pieces. Gap theory is nonsense in my opinion. I don’t think God rested thus a Gap was formed

Edited April 4, 2021 by BeyondET

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 4/1/2021 at 11:36 AM, The Barbarian said:

The inclusion of the snake would be consistent with the culture of the ancient Near East, which used the serpent as a symbol of wisdom, immortality, and health.

Our Basic Hypocritical Oath is Greek snake medical based like we see with Moses and the Staff/cross symbol.

On 4/1/2021 at 11:36 AM, The Barbarian said:

That happens to all of us.   We all start as a single cell.  No evolution required.    Nor does evolutionary theory claim that a single cell ever evolved into a human.   So errors both ways.

I think not just 1 single cell but millions of microbes are in the dust God scooped up and Spat into.   I agree no evolving Species into new Species!