Are Fossils evidence of evolution ....or are the evidence of fossils

[Riverwalker]

Just now, BeyondET said:

No two days, 5th sea animals 

Oh...alright   I meant "each"

 

[The Barbarian]

1 minute ago, Sparks said:

Forgive me, but I cannot take your arguments seriously.  

Doesn't matter.  Standard physics.    A bright high school student could work it out for you.

2 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I won't be addressing them from now on. 

Not much else to do, if you don't like the data.   Kepler and Newton showed how to identify where the Oort cloud is.   Just fairly simple physics.   BTW, the same physics are used to predict when a comet is going to return.    Halley did that about 200 years ago.   So we know it works.

And as I pointed out, it has nothing to do with evolution.

If anyone else doubts the facts, I'd be pleased to offer them some more detail.

 

[BeyondET]

4 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Oh...alright   I meant "each"

 

That’s ok, 

let the water do it and let the earth do it,

Edited April 18, 2021 by BeyondET

[teddyv]

10 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Using what exists to predict what exists is a far cry from using what exists to determine the how and why of evolution

My response was based on a question asking how Plate Tectonics theory is predictive. Nothing about biological evolution.

[Riverwalker]

4 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

That’s ok, 

let the water do it and let the earth do it,

The could do nothing without the Word of God by whom all things were made, and they did it in two days...no evolving

 

[Riverwalker]

2 minutes ago, teddyv said:

My response was based on a question asking how Plate Tectonics theory is predictive. Nothing about biological evolution.

My apologies. I forget these threads sometimes stray from the original question

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Riverwalker

[BeyondET]

8 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

The could do nothing without the Word of God by whom all things were made, and they did it in two days...no evolving

 

You say no I say yes I get it, but the Word says let them bring forth living creatures, we don’t quite know all the details on how that happened from the Word.

Edited April 18, 2021 by BeyondET

[Riverwalker]

1 minute ago, BeyondET said:

You say no I say yes I get it, but the Word says let them bring forth livings creature, we don’t quite know all the details on how that happened from the Word.

The word also says 1 day each

So then we are in agreement that there was no evolution.

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

21 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Actually God did not create sea animals or land animals from dust. In both accounts God says let the waters and let the earth bring forth.

pretty much like it is today.

Just read the specifics to these animals God is telling Job about from God Creation viewpoint.   Just read them it will be 2 pages.

 

1Then the Lord answered Job from the tempest and said,		אוַיַּֽעַן־יְהֹוָ֣ה אֶת־אִ֖יּוֹב מִ֥ן | (כתיב מִ֥נ) הַסְּעָרָ֗ה וַיֹּֽאמַר:
2"Who is this who gives dark counsel, with words, without knowledge?		במִ֚י זֶ֨ה | מַחְשִׁ֖יךְ עֵצָ֥ה בְמִלִּ֗ין בְּֽלִי־דָֽעַת:
3Now gird your loins like a man, and I will ask you and [you] tell Me.		גאֱזָר־נָ֣א כְגֶ֣בֶר חֲלָצֶ֑יךָ וְ֜אֶשְׁאָֽלְךָ֗ וְהֽוֹדִיעֵֽנִי:
4Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell if you know understanding.		דאֵיפֹ֣ה הָ֖יִיתָ בְּיָסְדִי־אָ֑רֶץ הַ֜גֵּ֗ד אִם־יָדַ֥עְתָּ בִינָֽה:
5Who placed its measures if you know, or who extended a line over it?		המִי־שָׂ֣ם מְ֖מַדֶּיהָ כִּ֣י תֵדָ֑ע א֚וֹ מִֽי־נָטָ֖ה עָלֶ֣יהָ קָּֽו:
6On what were its sockets sunk, or who laid its cornerstone?		ועַל־מָ֖ה אֲדָנֶ֣יהָ הָטְבָּ֑עוּ א֥וֹ מִֽי־יָֽ֜רָ֗ה אֶ֣בֶן פִּנָּתָֽהּ:
7When the morning stars sing together, and all the angels of God shout?		זבְּרָן־יַ֖חַד כּ֣וֹכְבֵי בֹ֑קֶר וַ֜יָּרִ֗יעוּ כָּל־בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים:
8And [who] shut up the sea with doors when it broke forth and issued out of the womb?		חוַיָּ֣סֶךְ בִּדְלָתַ֣יִם יָ֑ם בְּ֜גִיח֗וֹ מֵרֶ֥חֶם יֵצֵֽא:
9When I made the cloud its raiment and the dark cloud its wrapping?		טבְּשׂוּמִ֣י עָנָ֣ן לְבֻשׁ֑וֹ וַֽ֜עֲרָפֶ֗ל חֲתֻלָּתֽוֹ:
10And broke for it My prescribed limit, and placed a bar and doors?		יוָֽאֶשְׁבֹּ֣ר עָלָ֣יו חֻקִּ֑י וָֽ֜אָשִׂ֗ים בְּרִ֣יחַ וּדְלָתָֽיִם:
11And said, 'Until here you may come but no further, and here [your strength] shall place your waves with pride.'		יאוָאֹמַ֗ר עַד־פֹּ֣ה תָ֖בוֹא וְלֹ֣א תֹסִ֑יף וּפֹ֥א יָ֜שִׁ֗ית בִּגְא֥וֹן גַּלֶּֽיךָ:
12In [all] your days, did you command the morning? Did you tell the dawn its place?		יבהֲמִיָּמֶיךָ צִוִּ֣יתָ בֹּ֑קֶר יִדַּ֖עְתָּ הַשַּׁ֣חַר (כתיב יִדַּ֖עְתָּהַ שַּׁ֣חַר) מְקוֹמֽוֹ:
13To grasp the corners of the earth so that the wicked shall be shaken from it?		יגלֶֽאֱחֹז בְּכַנְפ֣וֹת הָאָ֑רֶץ וְיִנָּֽעֲר֖וּ רְשָׁעִ֣ים מִמֶּֽנָּה:
14The seal changes like clay and they shall stand like a garment.		ידתִּתְהַפֵּךְ כְּחֹ֣מֶר חוֹתָ֑ם וְ֜יִֽתְיַצְּב֗וּ כְּמ֣וֹ לְבֽוּשׁ:
15And their light shall be withheld from the wicked, and the high arm shall be broken.		טווְיִמָּנַ֣ע מֵרְשָׁעִ֣ים אוֹרָ֑ם וּזְר֥וֹעַ רָ֜מָ֗ה תִּשָּׁבֵֽר:
16Have you come until the locks of the sea, and have you walked in the searching out of the deep?		טזהֲבָאתָ עַד־נִבְכֵי־יָ֑ם וּבְחֵ֥קֶר תְּ֜ה֗וֹם הִתְהַלָּֽכְתָּ:
17Have the gates of death been revealed to you, and do you see the gates of the shadow of death?		יזהֲנִגְל֣וּ לְ֖ךָ שַֽׁעֲרֵי־מָ֑וֶת וְשַֽׁעֲרֵ֖י צַלְמָ֣וֶת תִּרְאֶֽה:
18Do you understand [everything] until the breadths of the earth? Tell if you know it all.		יחהִתְבֹּנַנְתָּ עַד־רַֽחֲבֵי־אָ֑רֶץ הַ֜גֵּ֗ד אִם־יָדַ֥עְתָּ כֻלָּֽהּ:
19Which is the way to [the place] where the light dwells, and as for darkness-where is its place?		יטאֵי־זֶ֣ה הַ֖דֶּרֶךְ יִשְׁכָּן־א֑וֹר וְ֜חֹ֗שֶׁךְ אֵי־זֶ֥ה מְקֹמֽוֹ:
20That you should take it to its border and that you should understand the paths of its house?		ככִּ֣י תִ֖קָּחֶנּוּ אֶל־גְּבוּל֑וֹ וְכִ֥י תָ֜בִין נְתִיב֥וֹת בֵּיתֽוֹ:
21You knew- for then you were born, and the number of your days would be many.		כאיָדַעְתָּ כִּי־אָ֣ז תִּוָּלֵ֑ד וּמִסְפַּ֖ר יָמֶ֣יךָ רַבִּֽים:
22Have you come to the treasures of snow, and did you see the treasures of hail?		כבהֲבָאתָ אֶל־אֹֽצְר֣וֹת שָׁ֑לֶג וְאוֹצְר֖וֹת בָּרָ֣ד תִּרְאֶֽה:
23That I saved for a time of trouble, for a day of battle and war?		כגאֲשֶׁר־חָשַׂ֥כְתִּי לְעֶ֣ת־צָ֑ר לְי֥וֹם קְ֜רָ֗ב וּמִלְחָמָֽה:
24Which way is the light parted, [which way] does the eastern one spread it over the earth?		כדאֵי־זֶ֣ה הַ֖דֶּרֶךְ יֵחָ֣לֶק א֑וֹר יָפֵ֖ץ קָדִ֣ים עֲלֵי־אָֽרֶץ:
25Who has separated a place for the hair and a way for the cloud of the thunderclaps?		כהמִֽי־פִלַּ֣ג לַשֶּׁ֣טֶף תְּעָלָ֑ה וְ֜דֶ֗רֶךְ לַֽחֲזִ֥יז קֹלֽוֹת:
26To rain on the earth where no man is; a desert in which there is no man.		כולְהַמְטִיר עַל־אֶ֣רֶץ לֹֽא־אִ֑ישׁ מִ֜דְבָּ֗ר לֹֽא־אָדָ֥ם בּֽוֹ:
27To sate darkness and desolation and to cause a source of grass to sprout.		כזלְהַשְׂבִּ֣יעַ שֹׁ֖אָה וּמְשֹׁאָ֑ה וּלְ֜הַצְמִ֗יחַ מֹ֣צָא דֶֽשֶׁא:
28Has the rain a father, or who begot the waves of dew?		כחהֲיֵשׁ־לַמָּטָ֥ר אָ֑ב א֥וֹ מִי־ה֜וֹלִ֗יד אֶגְלֵי־טָֽל:
29From whose womb did the ice emerge, and the frost of the heaven-who bore it?		כטמִבֶּ֣טֶן מִ֖י יָצָ֣א הַקָּ֑רַח וּכְפֹ֥ר שָׁ֜מַ֗יִם מִ֣י יְלָדֽוֹ:
30Like a stone, the water hides, and the face of the deep is caught.		לכָּאֶבֶן מַ֣יִם יִתְחַבָּ֑אוּ וּפְנֵ֥י תְ֜ה֗וֹם יִתְלַכָּֽדוּ:
31Can you tie the chains of the Pleiades or loose the straps of Orion?		לאהַתְקַשֵּׁר מַֽעֲדַנּ֣וֹת כִּימָ֑ה אֽוֹ־מֽוֹשְׁכ֖וֹת כְּסִ֣יל תְּפַתֵּֽחַ:
32Can you take out the constellations each in its time, and can you console Ayish for her children?		לבהֲתֹצִ֣יא מַזָּר֣וֹת בְּעִתּ֑וֹ וְ֜עַ֗יִשׁ עַל־בָּנֶ֥יהָ תַנְחֵֽם:
33Do you know the ordinances of heaven; can you place his dominion upon the earth?		לגהֲיָדַעְתָּ חֻקּ֣וֹת שָׁמָ֑יִם אִם־תָּשִׂ֖ים מִשְׁטָר֣וֹ בָאָֽרֶץ:
34Can you lift up your voice to the cloud, or will an abundance of water cover you?		לדהֲתָרִ֣ים לָעָ֣ב קוֹלֶ֑ךָ וְֽשִׁפְעַת־מַ֥יִם תְּכַסֶּֽךָּ:
35Will you send forth lightning bolts so that they should go and say to you, 'Here we are'?		לההַֽתְשַׁלַּ֣ח בְּרָקִ֣ים וְיֵלֵ֑כוּ וְיֹֽאמְר֖וּ לְךָ֣ הִנֵּֽנוּ:
36Who placed wisdom in the inward parts or who gave the rooster understanding?		לומִי־שָׁ֖ת בַּטֻּח֣וֹת חָכְמָ֑ה א֚וֹ מִֽי־נָתַ֖ן לַשֶּׂ֣כְוִי בִינָֽה:
37Who charges the skies with wisdom, and who brings down the bottles of heaven?		לזמִֽי־יְסַפֵּ֣ר שְׁחָקִ֣ים בְּחָכְמָ֑ה וְנִבְלֵ֥י שָׁ֜מַ֗יִם מִ֣י יַשְׁכִּֽיב:
38When the dust was poured into a mass and the clods cleaved together?		לחבְּצֶ֣קֶת עָ֖פָר לַמּוּצָ֑ק וּרְגָבִ֥ים יְדֻבָּֽקוּ:
39Do you hunt the prey for the old lion, or do you fill the appetite of the young lions?		לטהֲתָצ֣וּד לְלָבִ֣יא טָ֑רֶף וְחַיַּ֖ת כְּפִירִ֣ים תְּמַלֵּֽא:
40When they crouch in their dens, they abide in the covert to lie in wait?		מכִּי־יָשֹׁ֥חוּ בַמְּעוֹנ֑וֹת יֵֽשְׁב֖וּ בַסֻּכָּ֣ה לְמוֹ־אָֽרֶב:
41Who prepares for the raven his prey, when his young cry out to God, they wander for lack of food?		מאמִ֚י יָכִ֥ין לָֽעֹרֵ֗ב צֵ֫יד֥וֹ כִּֽי־יְ֖לָדָיו (כתיב יְ֖לָדָו) אֶל־אֵ֣ל יְשַׁוֵּ֑עוּ יִ֜תְע֗וּ לִבְלִי־אֹֽכֶל:

[Guest kingdombrat]

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1Do you know the time for the mountain goats to give birth? Do you wait for the hinds to calve?		אהֲיָדַ֗עְתָּ עֵ֖ת לֶ֣דֶת יַֽעֲלֵי־סָ֑לַע חֹלֵ֖ל אַיָּל֣וֹת תִּשְׁמֹֽר:
2Do you count the months when they will be filled, and do you know the time of their birth?		בתִּסְפּ֣וֹר יְרָחִ֣ים תְּמַלֶּ֑אנָה וְ֜יָדַ֗עְתָּ עֵ֣ת לִדְתָּֽנָה:
3They kneel; they bring forth their young; they send forth their pangs.		גתִּכְרַעְנָה יַלְדֵיהֶ֣ן תְּפַלַּ֑חְנָה חֶבְלֵיהֶ֥ם תְּשַׁלַּֽחְנָה:
4Their children grow strong; they grow up on the grain; they go forth and do not return to them.		דיַחְלְמ֣וּ בְ֖נֵיהֶם יִרְבּ֣וּ בַבָּ֑ר יָֽ֜צְא֗וּ וְלֹא־שָׁ֥בוּ לָֽמוֹ:
5Who sent the wild donkey free, or who loosed the bands of the wild donkey?		המִֽי־שִׁלַּ֣ח פֶּ֣רֶא חָפְשִׁ֑י וּמֹֽסְר֥וֹת עָ֜ר֗וֹד מִ֣י פִתֵּֽחַ:
6Whose house I have made the wilderness, and whose dwellings the salt land.		ואֲשֶׁר־שַׂ֣מְתִּי עֲרָבָ֣ה בֵית֑וֹ וּֽמִשְׁכְּנוֹתָ֥יו מְלֵֽחָה:
7He mocks the tumult of the city; he does not hearken to the shouts of the driver.		זיִשְׂחַק לַֽהֲמ֣וֹן קִרְיָ֑ה תְּשֻׁא֥וֹת נ֜וֹגֵ֗שׂ לֹ֣א יִשְׁמָֽע:
8He spies out the mountains for his pasture, and he searches after every green thing.		חיְת֣וּר הָרִ֣ים מִרְעֵ֑הוּ וְאַחַ֖ר כָּל־יָר֣וֹק יִדְרֽוֹשׁ:
9Does the wild ox wish to serve you; will it lodge by your manger?		טהֲיֹ֣אבֶה רֵ֣ים עָבְדֶ֑ךָ אִם־יָ֜לִ֗ין עַל־אֲבוּסֶֽךָ:
10Can you tie a wild ox to a furrow with his rope or will he harrow the valleys after you?		יהֲתִקְשָׁר־רֵ֖ים בְּתֶ֣לֶם עֲבֹת֑וֹ אִם־יְשַׂדֵּ֖ד עֲמָקִ֣ים אַֽחֲרֶֽיךָ:
11Will you rely on him because his strength is great, or will you leave your toil for him?		יאהֲתִבְטַח־בּ֖וֹ כִּי־רַ֣ב כֹּח֑וֹ וְתַֽעֲזֹ֖ב אֵלָ֣יו יְגִיעֶֽךָ:
12Will you believe him that he will return your seed or that he will gather in your threshing floor?		יבהֲתַֽאֲמִ֣ין בּ֖וֹ כִּי־יָשִׁ֣יב (כתיב יָשִׁ֣וב) זַרְעֶ֑ךָ וְֽגָרְנְךָ֥ יֶֽאֱסֹֽף:
13The wing of the renanim rejoices, or the winged stork or the nozah.		יגכְּנַף־רְנָנִ֥ים נֶֽעֱלָ֑סָה אִם־אֶ֜בְרָ֗ה חֲסִידָ֥ה וְנֹצָֽה:
14For she leaves her eggs on the ground, and she warms herself on the earth.		ידכִּי־תַֽעֲזֹ֣ב לָאָ֣רֶץ בֵּֽצֶ֑יהָ וְֽעַל־עָפָ֥ר תְּחַמֵּֽם:
15She forgets that a foot will crack it, and the beast of the field will step on it.		טווַתִּשְׁכַּח כִּי־רֶ֣גֶל תְּזוּרֶ֑הָ וְחַיַּ֖ת הַשָּׂדֶ֣ה תְּדוּשֶֽׁהָ:
16She is hardened against her young ones as though they were not hers; though her toil is in vain, she has no fear.		טזהִקְשִׁ֣יחַ בָּנֶ֣יהָ לְּלֹא־לָ֑הּ לְרִ֖יק יְגִיעָ֣הּ בְּלִי־פָֽחַד:
17For God caused her to forget wisdom, and He did not give her a share of understanding.		יזכִּֽי־הִשָּׁ֣הּ אֱל֣וֹהַּ חָכְמָ֑ה וְלֹא־חָ֥לַק לָ֜֗הּ בַּבִּינָֽה:
18Like the time that she goes off on high; she scorns the horse and its rider.		יחכָּעֵת בַּמָּר֣וֹם תַּמְרִ֑יא תִּשְׂחַ֥ק לַ֜סּ֗וּס וּלְרֹֽכְבֽוֹ:
19Did you give the horse his strength? Did you clothe his neck with fierceness?		יטהֲתִתֵּ֣ן לַסּ֣וּס גְּבוּרָ֑ה הֲתַלְבִּ֖ישׁ צַוָּאר֣וֹ רַעְמָֽה:
20Do you make him leap like a locust? The glory of his snorting is terrible.		כהֲתַרְעִישֶׁנּוּ כָּֽאַרְבֶּ֑ה ה֖וֹד נַחְר֣וֹ אֵימָֽה:
21They spy in the valley and rejoice with strength; he goes forth toward the arms.		כאיַחְפְּר֣וּ בָ֖עֵמֶק וְיָשִׂ֣ישׂ בְּכֹ֣חַ יֵ֜צֵ֗א לִקְרַאת־נָֽשֶׁק:
22He scorns fear and is not dismayed; neither does he retreat because of the sword.		כביִשְׂחַ֣ק לְ֖פַחַד וְלֹ֣א יֵחָ֑ת וְלֹ֥א יָ֜שׁ֗וּב מִפְּנֵי־חָֽרֶב:
23The quiver upon him rattles, the blade of the spear and the javelin.		כגעָלָיו תִּרְנֶ֣ה אַשְׁפָּ֑ה לַ֖הַב חֲנִ֣ית וְכִידֽוֹן:
24With tumult and shaking he hollows out the ground, and he does not believe that it is the sound of a shofar.		כדבְּרַ֣עַשׂ וְ֖רֹגֶז יְגַמֶּא־אָ֑רֶץ וְלֹֽא־יַֽ֜אֲמִ֗ין כִּי־ק֥וֹל שׁוֹפָֽר:
25To many shofaroth he says, 'Hurrah!' He smells battle from afar, the thunder of princes and shouting.		כהבְּדֵ֚י שֹׁפָ֨ר | יֹ֘אמַ֚ר הֶאָ֗ח וּ֖מֵרָחוֹק יָרִ֣יחַ מִלְחָמָ֑ה רַ֥עַם שָֹ֜רִים וּתְרוּעָֽה:
26Is it because of your understanding that the hawk grows a wing, that it spreads out its wings to the south?		כוהֲמִבִּינָ֣תְךָ יַֽאֲבֶר־נֵ֑ץ יִפְרֹ֖שׂ כְּנָפָ֣יו (כתיב כְּנָפָ֣ו) לְתֵימָֽן:
27Or is it by your order that the eagle flies high, and that he lifts up his nest?		כזאִם־עַל־פִּ֖יךָ יַגְבִּ֣יהַּ נָ֑שֶׁר וְ֜כִ֗י יָרִ֥ים קִנּֽוֹ:
28He dwells on the rock and lodges, on the crag of the rock and the stronghold.		כחסֶ֣לַע יִ֖שְׁכֹּן וְיִתְלֹנָ֑ן עַֽל־שֶׁן־סֶ֜֗לַע וּמְצוּדָֽה:
29From there he searches for food; his eyes behold it afar off.		כטמִשָּׁם חָ֣פַר אֹ֑כֶל לְ֜מֵרָח֗וֹק עֵינָ֥יו יַבִּֽיטוּ:
30And his eaglets gulp down blood; and where there are slain, there he is."		לוְאֶפְרֹחָ֥יו (כתיב וְאֶפְרֹחָ֥ו) יְעַלְעוּ־דָ֑ם וּבַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר חֲ֜לָלִ֗ים שָׁ֣ם הֽוּא: