Omnipotent God Question

[Billiards Ball]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:12 PM, Uber Genius said:

Can God create a rock too heavy for him to lift?

God's choices come from love and logic only:

1) He moves the universe/all moves and rotates, including all the universe's mass and rocks, so NO

2) He created all from nothing (all rocks) and therefore moved all the mass of the rocks upon creation, so NO

3) Much harder to lift than a massive rock is human sin, and He died and rose to expiate all sin for all sinners, so NO

Edited February 9, 2021 by Billiards Ball

[Diaste]

The question is steeped in illogic, per every satanic attempt to disparage the Most High. 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Diaste

[Jayne]

To me, this age-old nonsense question has always for decades shown the misunderstanding of who God is by the one who asks the question.  And it shows the misunderstanding of logic.

The Bible says that there are things that God cannot do.  Some in this thread have already showed it, but I will repeat them to make a point.

• God cannot lie.  Numbers 23:19
• God cannot deny himself [in context, be faithless].  2 Timothy 2:13

These two things do NOT detract from God's omnipotence.

God is a God of order not nonsense.  If God would create a rock that he had infinite power over [by his creating it from nothing] and the rock having infinite power over Him [by God's not being able to move it], then God would be participating in two mutually exclusive events that cancel each other out.

God, in his perfection and order, will not create something that is - by it's makeup - in authority over Him and greater than Him.  He would not be God anymore.

You might as well ask if God can draw a circle that has three sides.  

C.S. Lewis said this about this question - "[It's impossible] not because God's power met an obstacle, but because nonsense is nonsense whether you talk about humans or God."

 

 

[Uber Genius]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:36 PM, missmuffet said:

Question: "Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?"

Answer: This question is frequently asked by skeptics of God, the Bible, Christianity, etc. If God can create a rock that He cannot lift, then God is not omnipotent. If God cannot create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it, then God is not omnipotent. According to this argument, omnipotence is self-contradictory. Therefore, God cannot be omnipotent. So, the question, could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it? The quick answer is "No." But the explanation is far more important to understand than the answer...
This question is based on a popular misunderstanding about the definitions of words like "almighty" or "omnipotent." These terms do not mean that God can do anything. Rather, they describe the amount of God’s power. Power is the ability to effect change - to make something happen. God (being unlimited) has unlimited power, and the Bible affirms this (Job 11:7-11, 37:23; 2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 4:8; etc.). Therefore, God can do whatever is possible to be done. God cannot, however, do that which is actually impossible. This is because true impossibility is not based on the amount of power one has, it is based on what is really possible. The truly impossible is not made possible by adding more power. Therefore, unless context indicates otherwise (e.g. Matthew 19:26 where man’s ability is being shown in contrast to God’s), impossibility means the same thing whether or not God is involved.

So, the first part of the question is based on a false idea - that God being almighty means that He can do anything. In fact, the Bible itself lists things God cannot do - like lie or deny Himself (Hebrews 6:18; 2 Timothy 2:13; Titus 1:2). The reason He cannot do these things is because of His nature and the nature of reality itself. God cannot do what is not actually possible to be done, like creating a two-sided triangle, or a married bachelor. Just because words can be strung together this way does not make the impossible possible - these things are contradictions, they are truly impossible in reality. Now, what about this rock? A rock would have to be infinitely large to defeat an infinite amount of lifting power. But an infinite rock is a contradiction since material objects cannot be infinite. Only God is infinite. There cannot be two infinites. So the question is actually asking if God can make a contradiction - which He cannot.

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-rock-heavy-lift.html

 

Miss muffett,

I would like to engage you in conversation. I am able to google or type into a search engine on gotquestions (which is a great site BTW), and find some great answers but what happens when you are on a bus and someone poses that question, or your cell service drops, or your not  in front of a computer? 

Gotquestions quotes, or I hope he does anyways, William Lane Craig's response to the question. Can you reword the key answer you provided above in a couple sentences? 

[Uber Genius]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

The question is steeped in illogic, per every satanic attempt to disparage the Most High. 

 

Bravo!

I would leave out everything after the comma when engaging non-Christians. Though true, it would not progress the conversation. 

The definition of all-powerful is that a being can do all things that are LOGICALLY POSSIBLE TO DO.

It is necessarily true that the laws of logic are true. That is to say God can't change those laws. 

So can God do/create [insert logically incoherent concept here]? 

Doesn't touch God's omnipotence but conflates (equivocates) the definition of omnipotence.

[Uber Genius]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

The Bible says that there are things that God cannot do.  Some in this thread have already showed it, but I will repeat them to make a point.

• God cannot lie.  Numbers 23:19

I like this approach as well.

when we use imprecise language to describe God's essential attributes we can end up tripping ourselves up in conversations with non-believers or cult members. 

[missmuffet]

59 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Miss muffett,

I would like to engage you in conversation. I am able to google or type into a search engine on gotquestions (which is a great site BTW), and find some great answers but what happens when you are on a bus and someone poses that question, or your cell service drops, or your not  in front of a computer? 

Gotquestions quotes, or I hope he does anyways, William Lane Craig's response to the question. Can you reword the key answer you provided above in a couple sentences? 

So you consider yourself a genius huh?

[Uber Genius]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

So you consider yourself a genius huh?

How unfortunate. I offered a chance to develop a response in your own words that would help you fulfill Peter's command to alway be ready to give an account of the hope that is in you...I spend my time researching and helping others with tricky questions from non-believers.

AND YOU RESPOND WITH MOCKERY AND VIRTUE SIGNALLING?

Unfortunately you have fallen into a trap.

I use my name and avatar to trap the religiously arrogant. Those whom don't have 10 seconds to look at an avatar and ask, "Why is there a picture of Wiley Coyote on his avatar?"

One could have looked on my profile and read the "about me," again only thirty seconds of effort. 

You could have taken two minutes and formed your own statement like Peter commands. 

Pharisee trap spring door slams shut.

 

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Uber Genius said:

Bravo!

I would leave out everything after the comma when engaging non-Christians. Though true, it would not progress the conversation. 

The definition of all-powerful is that a being can do all things that are LOGICALLY POSSIBLE TO DO.

It is necessarily true that the laws of logic are true. That is to say God can't change those laws. 

So can God do/create [insert logically incoherent concept here]? 

Doesn't touch God's omnipotence but conflates (equivocates) the definition of omnipotence.

Atheists are fascinating. They are undeterred in the face of common sense and logic. At least in my experience. 

Atheist: "There is no god."

Me: "You have searched every corner of the universe?"

Atheist: "No, I don't have to."

Me: "Then how do you know?"

Atheist: "I just know." 

Empirically it's clear people worship some god all the time. There are millions of gods. To deny this is blind faith. Amusing to me.

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Uber Genius said:

How unfortunate. I offered a chance to develop a response in your own words that would help you fulfill Peter's command to alway be ready to give an account of the hope that is in you...I spend my time researching and helping others with tricky questions from non-believers.

AND YOU RESPOND WITH MOCKERY AND VIRTUE SIGNALLING?

Unfortunately you have fallen into a trap.

I use my name and avatar to trap the religiously arrogant. Those whom don't have 10 seconds to look at an avatar and ask, "Why is there a picture of Wiley Coyote on his avatar?"

One could have looked on my profile and read the "about me," again only thirty seconds of effort. 

You could have taken two minutes and formed your own statement like Peter commands. 

Pharisee trap spring door slams shut.

 

She never rises to a challenge. I've tried many times.