The misleading translation n interpretation of Matthew 24 : 29-30

[ChristB4us]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Imho Jesus and the saints in Revelation 19 descended from heaven, first to Armageddon battle, then the 144000 Hebrew Will sing and welcome Him on mt. Zion (mt. Olives).

Thank you for sharing.

Revelation 14:1-5 has that 144,000 virgin men redeemed from the earth out of those raptured as making up His personal choir in Heaven when afterwards, the 3 angels sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth as everyone will know the gospel by that first angel Revelation 14:6-7, then the end comes of the world as we know it where a third of the earth is burned up along with fallen Babylon by that second angel Revelation 14:8, and then after a fiery calamity like that which will be cause for the New World Order to come with her mark of the beast system to buy & sell to survive for the rest of the world by that 3rd angel warning everyone the consequence for taking the mark of the beast is the lake of fire in Revelation 14:9-11 

Those 3 angels sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all remaining upon the earth in the coming great tribulation as every one will know the gospel just as every one will know the consequence for taking the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive which is the lake of fire.

Anyway, I see that "entourage" as raptured in Heaven and following Jesus around in Heaven wherever He goes and soon on the earth when He returns as the King of kings.

 

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

I know this won't make much sense to you, but.......

You are twisting this up. When Jesus descends with the armies of heaven this occurs in the seven thunders and can also be seen at the end of the vials.

The 144,000 are raptured to heaven before the fourth seal as the 5th seal occurs during the great tribulation. Tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

When you read Revelation 13 and 14, that takes place in the seals.

The 144000 are the Hebrew servants of God, they Will be on earth in the tribulation.

@ChristB4us

Edited April 16, 2023 by R. Hartono

[ChristB4us]

5 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The 144000 are the Hebrew servants of God, they Will be on earth in the tribulation.

@ChristB4us

Thank you for sharing your point of view but the 144,000 virgin men redeemed from the earth in Revelation 14:1-5 at the rapture event are not the 144,000 men from the twelve tribes of Israel being sealed as witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation after the rapture event in Revelation 7:1-8.

Revelation 7:1-8 is signaling the end of the time of the Gentiles after the rapture event for when the dispensation of the gospel will go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses.

So they have to have the Holy Spirit in them for them to be those 144,000 witnesses.

Plus, those former believers and unrepentant carnal wayward saints left behind still have the Holy Spirt in them as they will die ( Ephesians 4:30 ), but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonors in His House, vessels of wood & earth.  Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:9-17 does lend to that point of view.

As I understand this so far by His grace & By His help.

May God bless you.

 

[The Light]

44 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The 144000 are the Hebrew servants of God, they Will be on earth in the tribulation.

 

Yes, they will be on earth during the tribulation. However, the tribulation is over at the sixth seal as we can prove by IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION in Matthew 24. We get the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars and they are the same cosmic signs that take place after the 6th seal is opened. Those cosmic signs mark in Revelation where the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 takes place. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 happens at the sixth seal and not the end of the trumpets. Jesus will come at the end of the trumpets but that is when He returns with the armies of heaven (during the 7 thunders)

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

We can prove that that the 144,000 are sealed earlier in the seals, before the 5th seal even though it appears that they are not sealed until after the sixth seal.

The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. Here is the great tribulation in Revelation 14

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals.

Revelation reads like Genesis 7. Noah loads the animals 1 time and there is one flood and yet we are given 3 views of Noah loading the animals and 3 views of the same flood with more information.

In Revelation there is one tribulation period and one wrath of God. However we are given two views of the tribulation (the seals and Revelation 13-14) and two views of wrath (the trumpets and the vials)

Everything fits perfectly together when you understand what you are reading.

[The Light]

50 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

Thank you for sharing your point of view but the 144,000 virgin men redeemed from the earth in Revelation 14:1-5 at the rapture event are not the 144,000 men from the twelve tribes of Israel being sealed as witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation after the rapture event in Revelation 7:1-8.

No sir, they are the exact same 144,000. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals.

50 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

Revelation 7:1-8 is signaling the end of the time of the Gentiles after the rapture event for when the dispensation of the gospel will go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel and are about the people of Daniel.

Daniel 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

50 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

So they have to have the Holy Spirit in them for them to be those 144,000 witnesses.

Plus, those former believers and unrepentant carnal wayward saints left behind still have the Holy Spirt in them as they will die ( Ephesians 4:30 ), but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonors in His House, vessels of wood & earth.  Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:9-17 does lend to that point of view.

As I understand this so far by His grace & By His help.

May God bless you.

 

Revelation reads like Genesis 7. Noah loads the animals 1 time and there is one flood and yet we are given 3 views of Noah loading the animals and 3 views of the same flood with more information.

In Revelation there is one tribulation period and one wrath of God. However we are given two views of the tribulation (the seals and Revelation 13-14) and two views of wrath (the trumpets and the vials)

[The Light]

2 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Thank you for sharing.

Revelation 14:1-5 has that 144,000 virgin men redeemed from the earth out of those raptured as making up His personal choir in Heaven when afterwards, the

 

I think you are missing the whole point of the 144,000. They are of the 12 tribes and are 1st fruits. That means that they are first fruits of a harvest. The Church is raptured at the pretribulation rapture before the seals are opened. At that point part of Israel will have their eyes opened.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Gods plan was for the fathers of the Jews to be the firstfruits of the first harvest but Israel served other Gods so the Gentiles will be the 1st harvest. Thats why you have 144,000 first fruits as there will be another harvest. The last shall be first and the first shall be last.

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. There will be two raptures.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

No sir, they are the exact same 144,000. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel and are about the people of Daniel.

Daniel 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Revelation reads like Genesis 7. Noah loads the animals 1 time and there is one flood and yet we are given 3 views of Noah loading the animals and 3 views of the same flood with more information.

In Revelation there is one tribulation period and one wrath of God. However we are given two views of the tribulation (the seals and Revelation 13-14) and two views of wrath (the trumpets and the vials)

We prophesy in part and know in part and so in dealing with Revelation, for those abiding in Him, we will see Him face to face one day and know all things.

Thanks for sharing.  Only the Lord can ministry to both of us in this iron sharpen iron ministry of His.

May God bless you.

Edited April 16, 2023 by ChristB4us

[ChristB4us]

53 minutes ago, The Light said:

I think you are missing the whole point of the 144,000. They are of the 12 tribes and are 1st fruits. That means that they are first fruits of a harvest. The Church is raptured at the pretribulation rapture before the seals are opened. At that point part of Israel will have their eyes opened.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Gods plan was for the fathers of the Jews to be the firstfruits of the first harvest but Israel served other Gods so the Gentiles will be the 1st harvest. Thats why you have 144,000 first fruits as there will be another harvest. The last shall be first and the first shall be last.

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. There will be two raptures.

Luke 13:24-30 has God judging His House of those found in iniquity and casting them out while receiving those that are not, as they will be raptured, sitting with the O.T. saints at the Marriage Supper table ( which is inferred by the sitting down )

This is Christ's the firstfruits mentioned at the pre great tribulation rapture event before they that be Christ's at His coming are resurrected.

They that be Christ at His coming after the great tribulation are not meeting Jesus in the air because Jesus is already on earth having battled the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem Zechariah 14:1-5 and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years Revelation 20:1-6.  Then that resurrection is to take place "first" with Christ already on earth as the victorious King of kings.

After a thousand years and then after Satan's last rebellion for a small season & gets defeated again by Jesus Christ, then the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.

So there is really only one rapture of the taking out or up of the dead in Christ with the living as found abiding in Christ for the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

There is a resurrection after the great tribulation but they are not meeting Him in the air, but on earth as their King of kings.

Then there is a resurrection of the rest of the dead at the Great White Throne Judgment.

That is how I am understanding this by His grace & His help so far.

[The Light]

54 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

 

So there is really only one rapture of the taking out or up of the dead in Christ with the living as found abiding in Christ for the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

 

I believe the dead in Christ will rise first. This is the barley harvest. Then Christ will return for the wheat harvest, the alive believers of the Church. He will bring the dead in Christ with Him.

1 Thes 4

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The alive are caught up to meet them in the clouds. 

Then there will be another rapture, the fall fruit harvest when the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman is caught up at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

This takes place before the wrath of God.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, The Light said:

The Church age ends with the soon coming rapture of the Church. Then the seals are opened as the seals are the 70th week of Daniel, which is about the people of Daniel.

The 70th week does not begin with the 7th seal it begins with the first. The gathering from heaven and earth occurs at the 6th seal. Then the one-year wrath of God begins and ends when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven.

"The Church age ends with the soon coming rapture of the Church."

You got this part right.

"Then the seals are opened..."

Here you are miles off from the truth.

Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

What comes next? Jesus opens the first seal. WHEN? Around 32 AD.

Lightning shut me down