The misleading translation n interpretation of Matthew 24 : 29-30

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You are not getting this: When Jesus mentioned wars, rumors of wars, famines and pestilences, he added "the end is not yet," telling us, these things are church age, not at the end. The time of Jacob's trouble is at the end of the church age.

These wars, famines, and pestilences Jesus mentioned parallels seals 2, 3, and 4 that John wrote of. They have been occurring in that one fourth of the world  (probably Europe, the Middle East and Africa) all through the church age. Two world wars have come and gone in that one fourth of the world. Countless famines have come in that part of the world.

There is not one word at the first seal to hint of anything evil—not one word. It is only imagination that someone thinks this first seal is the the Antichrist Beast of Revelation 13. 

John used the color white 17 times in Revelation. This color white of the first horse MUST parallel the same meaning as in the other 16 times John used it, to represent righteousness, godliness, pureness, holiness, etc.

When we refuse to pull the first seal out of its context (Chapters 4 and 5), Jesus prevailing over death, then ascending and sending the Holy Spirit down, it cannot possibly be anything relating to the 70th week. There was only one entity on earth that would fit the color white when Jesus ascended: that would be the infant church. Jesus told them to take the gospel to the world. But Satan was and still is the god of this world. The church would have to overcome the principalities and powers of every new land the gospel was to reach.

The description giving of the first seal fits the church, taking the gospel to the world. Of course the rider of this white horse is not Jesus. He ascended and has stayed in heaven. It is my guess that these horses and riders are symbolic—not real horses and riders.

I will tell you what Jesus spoke to me concerning chapters 4 and 5, paraphrased: if you don't understand why Jesus was not seen in the throne room in chapter 4, if you don't understand why Jesus was not found worthy to take the book and open the seals in that first search John watched, if you don't understand why the Holy Spirit was still there in the throne room in chapter 4, long after Jesus has ascended, you will not understand John's vision. Plain and simple.

The 1st seal is not Jesus.

 

[iamlamad]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:22 AM, R. Hartono said:

The 1st seal is not Jesus.

Correct: Jesus is the One who opened the first seal—somewhere around 32 AD.

The white horse and rider are probably symbolic, and are meant to represent the CHURCH (Not Jesus) with the everlasting GOSPEL (Still not Jesus).

Anyone can pull a verse out of its context and make the bible say almost anything. The context of this first seal is Jesus ascending and sending the Holy Spirit down. 

John used "white" 17 times in Revelation. This time, it was a white horse. White here must mean what white meant in the other 16 uses in Revelation: righteousness, worthiness, or holiness. Anything else would be very inconsistent, and God is NOT inconsistent.

The only righteous entity on earth around 32 AD was the infant church. About this same time, Jesus told the church to take the gospel to the world. This is what the first seal is to represent.

[iamlamad]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:03 AM, The Light said:

Let me get this straight. These wars, famines, and pestilences Jesus mentioned parallels seals 2, 3, and 4 that John wrote of. Then you go on to say "There is not one word at the first seal to hint of anything evil—not one word."

Don't you think Jesus telling us that there are false Christs parallels the 1st seal? Don't you think that is evil?

Then you go to say talk about the color white and how it is good. Doesn't it occur to you that a wolf dresses in sheep's clothing to fool the sheep. Are you expecting the wolf to dress in wolfs clothing? 

Ok. Why do you not believe Jesus? I have been telling you for some time that if you don't understand that what Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 lines up perfectly with what John tells us in Revelation, you will be without understanding. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation and the sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth before the wrath of God. Jesus even goes on to say this.

Matthew 24

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus says, hey, wake up, I have told you before, false Christs are coming. I told you that the beast of the earth is coming and now I'm telling that the beast of the sea is coming. Don't fall for these false Christs, because when I come it will be as lightning.

What Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 lines up perfectly with what John tells us in Revelation. When those seals are opened, a false Christ will come forth. Then there will be wars, famines and pestilence..........not over in Africa or Afghanistan, RIGHT HERE and everywhere. The stores will be looted in a flash and the famine will be upon the world. Then comes disease. You think this stuff has been going on since the death of Jesus, but you don't understand that the time of Jacobs trouble is the final week that takes place in the seals.

It's time you start believing what Jesus told you. 

This is a book of REVELATION, not a book of deceiving. The white color of the horse at the first seal MUST mean the same thing as the other 16 uses of white in Revelation. God is not trying to trick us at all. You are simply pulling that first seal out of its 32 AD context. Anyone can make a verse say what they want it to say, if they are willing to pull it from its context.

1. Jesus NOT SEEN in the throne room: telling us the TIMING of the vision at that point is when Jesus was on the earth.

2. Jesus NOT FOUND in the search John watched tells us that at that point in the vision is while Jesus was on the earth or under the earth, but was BEFORE He rose from the dead. It is written that He PREVAILED to become worthy to open the book. After He prevailed over death He BECAME worthy to open the seals. This pinpoints the time of the resurrection.

Next, Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room, appearing as a sacrificed lamb, but was alive again.

Next, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down.
Next, Jesus took the book.

When? Around 32 AD.

[The Light]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is a book of REVELATION, not a book of deceiving. The white color of the horse at the first seal MUST mean the same thing as the other 16 uses of white in Revelation. God is not trying to trick us at all. You are simply pulling that first seal out of its 32 AD context. Anyone can make a verse say what they want it to say, if they are willing to pull it from its context.

Oh. I'm pulling it out of context? So, you are saying that Jesus is one of four horsemen of the Apocalypse? 

You also claim that Jesus and John disagree? Jesus says false Christ. iamlamad says not so fast Jesus.

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

1. Jesus NOT SEEN in the throne room: telling us the TIMING of the vision at that point is when Jesus was on the earth.

2. Jesus NOT FOUND in the search John watched tells us that at that point in the vision is while Jesus was on the earth or under the earth, but was BEFORE He rose from the dead. It is written that He PREVAILED to become worthy to open the book. After He prevailed over death He BECAME worthy to open the seals. This pinpoints the time of the resurrection.

Great. Does it pinpoint when the 70th week of Daniel begins?

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Next, Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room, appearing as a sacrificed lamb, but was alive again.

Next, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down.
Next, Jesus took the book.

When? Around 32 AD.

Has it occurred to you that most of Revelation is a future event. It's a vision of the future. The seals are a vision of what happens in the future. The seals are not opened and will not be opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

[The Light]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Correct: Jesus is the One who opened the first seal—somewhere around 32 AD.

 

Incorrect. The seals are not opened and will not be open until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The seals are the final week.

[R. Hartono]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Correct: Jesus is the One who opened the first seal—somewhere around 32 AD.

The white horse and rider are probably symbolic, and are meant to represent the CHURCH (Not Jesus) with the everlasting GOSPEL (Still not Jesus).

Anyone can pull a verse out of its context and make the bible say almost anything. The context of this first seal is Jesus ascending and sending the Holy Spirit down. 

John used "white" 17 times in Revelation. This time, it was a white horse. White here must mean what white meant in the other 16 uses in Revelation: righteousness, worthiness, or holiness. Anything else would be very inconsistent, and God is NOT inconsistent.

The only righteous entity on earth around 32 AD was the infant church. About this same time, Jesus told the church to take the gospel thorseo the world. This is what the first seal is to represent.

The 1st seal horse rider will conquer the world. Jesus has conquered death. Totally big difference.

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Incorrect. The seals are not opened and will not be open until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The seals are the final week.

Thats right the 7 seals are not yet opened. The seals shall be opened at the final 70th week of Daniel which is the last week = 7 years of tribulation.

@iamlamad

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Oh. I'm pulling it out of context? So, you are saying that Jesus is one of four horsemen of the Apocalypse? 

You also claim that Jesus and John disagree? Jesus says false Christ. iamlamad says not so fast Jesus.

Great. Does it pinpoint when the 70th week of Daniel begins?

Has it occurred to you that most of Revelation is a future event. It's a vision of the future. The seals are a vision of what happens in the future. The seals are not opened and will not be opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Apostle John would not weep if he knew the 1st seal is Jesus. No secret at all. 

Iamlamad, What Worthy of secret if God hide Jesus with the 1st seal ? Everybody in the world already know Jesus has been witnessing to the world at the year 30. 

@iamlamad

Edited April 20, 2023 by R. Hartono

[The Light]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Thats right the 7 seals are not yet opened. The seals shall be opened at the final 70th week of Daniel which is the last week = 7 years of tribulation.

@iamlamad

Actually it will be 6 years of tribulation and one year of wrath. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

[Revelation Man]

On 3/23/2021 at 4:47 PM, other one said:

can people actually agree on what the tribulation time is.

That's pretty easy, but most people simply come out of the chute running with ideas. I was called unto Prophecy and didn't get most of the answers until over 30 years later. 

Everything centers around the 1260 middle of the week events. One problem is people can't grasp that the Seals are merely Jesus prophesying as he opens the Sealed Scroll which has the "Trumpet Judgments therein" all the judgments come from 7 Trumps, hence Rev. 10 now makes more sense. 

What happens is not only does God's Wrath fall with the Rev. 8 Asteroid (Apophis IMHO) but the Anti-Christ is nit allowed to go forth conquering until that Asteroid (Gods Wrath) hits, better known as the DOTL. Rev. 6 simply foretells both things, read the Seals numbered 1-5 and you get a picture of the soon to come 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ/Beast, he 1.) Conquers 2.) Brings War 3.) Which bring Famine His rule brings 42 months of Sickness and Death 5.) Lastly he will Marty those who turn to Christ after the Pre Trib Rapture...........Then Jesus foretells about God's Wrath over the exact same 42 month period, it will bring Darkness/Fire and Satan is cast down (untimely figs). 

Notice how long the Dragon  chases the Woman? 42 months. Notice how long the Beast rules? 42 Months. Notice how long the Two-witnesses witness? 42 months, but they die at the 2nd Woe, before the Beast who dies at the 7th Vial, which tells us they must also show up before the Beast, they do, at the 1335 which is 75 days before the 1260 and 45 days before the 1290. Until one gets what the 1335, 1290 and 1260 are it will  e hard to understand the timelines tbh.

So, why is Seal #7 over in Rev. 8? That's where God's Wrath gets unleashed. Why is there Silence in heaven fir 30 minutes? Reverence fir the coming deaths, God takes no pleasures in having to kill billions of people, He repented when He flooded the world back in  Noah's days, but Justice has to be served by a Just God, Amen.

The Greatest Ever Troubles is the last 1260 days. The 70th week is the last week which brings Israel unto repentance. Why do they repent 75 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Israel and flee 30 days (at the 1290) before he conquers Israel? Because the 1335 Blessing is the Two-witnesses who come back before the DOTL to turn Israel back to God (Malachi 4:5-6) then  after Israel repents and starts WORSHIPING Jesus in their Temple, a False Prophet, Jewish High Priest like unto Jason (real name Yeshua) under Antiochus, will FORBID Jesus Worship in "his temple" and then place an AoD (Image of the E.U. President) in the temple. Rev. 13 confirms the 1290 Image placing is the 2nd Beast !!

Rev. 7 is simply a code for ALL Jews who repent fleeing Judea. Then God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8.