Is the Trump of God the Seventh Trumpet?

[Diaste]

17 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Good; I like what you’ve said.  
 

Is the hail a sign? … or maybe it doesn’t constitute as a sign?  But regardless, in my understanding, when this event happens, it’s all over because this is God’s wrath we’re seeing!  This is Armageddon and Hamon-gog! ….this is the 7th trump….which just so happens to be the very, very, very last trump (me thinks ).

Rev. 16:21 
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

Yes. It's my understanding the hail is the most devastating of the plagues, worse than the ones before. I do agree it's right at the end as it's part of the 7th bowl. Golf ball size hail is severely damaging destroying crops cars, even buildings. This is interesting to me so I'm going to go on a bit.

NOAA is saying over 4" diameter hail can possibly fall at 100 mph. 

Physics Factbook says 3.14" diameter hail can fall at 100 mph. That would kill you if you got caught in it. 

100lb[talent] hail stones could be 4' to 10' in diameter traveling at 40 mph to 100 mph.[TerminalVelocityCalculator] That would crush everything. There would be no defense. So yeah probably the worst plague ever no matter if they are big and slow or smaller and fast.

Wow.

 

[Selah7]

32 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Yes. It's my understanding the hail is the most devastating of the plagues, worse than the ones before. I do agree it's right at the end as it's part of the 7th bowl. Golf ball size hail is severely damaging destroying crops cars, even buildings. This is interesting to me so I'm going to go on a bit.

NOAA is saying over 4" diameter hail can possibly fall at 100 mph. 

Physics Factbook says 3.14" diameter hail can fall at 100 mph. That would kill you if you got caught in it. 

100lb[talent] hail stones could be 4' to 10' in diameter traveling at 40 mph to 100 mph.[TerminalVelocityCalculator] That would crush everything. There would be no defense. So yeah probably the worst plague ever no matter if they are big and slow or smaller and fast.

Wow.

 

Definitely a WOW moment.  So we know that this plague of hail is God’s wrath—It is His pouring out of the 7th vial (which matches the 7th trump).

Edited July 11, 2021 by Selah7

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's possible what you say is correct.

I think it may be like this....

12And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken

 

 14The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

The sky receding could be the sign. Sign as defined in Matt 24:30 is:

 

4592 sēmeíon – a sign (typically miraculous), given especially to confirm, corroborate or authenticate. 4592 /sēmeíon ("sign") then emphasizes the end-purpose which exalts the one giving it. Accordingly, it is used dozens of times in the NT for what authenticates the Lord and His eternal purpose, especially by doing what mere man can not replicate or take credit for.

emphasis mine

 

 

Ya nailed it! Also look at how it fits with  Rev 1:7-  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Definitely a WOW moment.  So we know that this plague of hail is God’s wrath—It is His pouring out of the 7th vial (which matches the 7th trump).

Why do you say the 7th vial matches the 7th trump?

[Selah7]

55 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Why do you say the 7th vial matches the 7th trump?

This part I’m still studying about and I probably need to wait on my reply until I understand it better; but hey, I’ll go ahead and put down a few notes I’ve made. Maybe you can help me study this out, okay?  

The 6th trump is the second Woe.  That’s when the four winds stop.  That’s when God begins to intercede. Up until then, he had told Michael to do a few things, kick satan out of Heaven and put him down here on Earth, basically.  But when you come to the second WOE, God Himself begins to intercede in the 6th and the 7th trumps.  All seven of these vials will be poured out during the 7th trump—right at the very end.
 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

This part I’m still studying about and I probably need to wait on my reply until I understand it better; but hey, I’ll go ahead and put down a few notes I’ve made. Maybe you can help me study this out, okay?  

The 6th trump is the second Woe.  That’s when the four winds stop.  That’s when God begins to intercede. Up until then, he had told Michael to do a few things, kick satan out of Heaven and put him down here on Earth, basically.  But when you come to the second WOE, God Himself begins to intercede in the 6th and the 7th trumps.  All seven of these vials will be poured out during the 7th trump—right at the very end.
 

I'm following.  What about the 7th seal?

[Selah7]

On to what I know about the Seals (the Seals are knowledge of God’s battle plan for the end of this age).

The first six Seals are separated off from the seventh in a very unique manner, as though to point out to us that the seventh is not immediately consecutive on the sixth, as the other seals are consecutive one on the other.
 
The sixth seal carries us forward to the time of the end—it speaks of the signs in the sun and moon and stars (6:12-13), which the Lord associates with His personal appearance (Matt. 24:29, Joel 2:28-31), where it is called "the great and terrible day of the Lord."  It is called in the sixth seal "the great day of His wrath" (6:17), and the signs in heaven are the great final scene (6:14), as described in 2 Pet. 3:10.
 
If this be so, then the first six seals are separated, very definitely, from the seventh; and the silence in heaven which follows the opening of the seventh indicates a pause.
 
The six seals present us with a preliminary summary (knowledge) of the judgments, which cover the whole period, the sixth leading up to and ending in the actual coming of Christ; or, at any rate, to the end of chapter 18.
 
So then, we can separate the Seals off from the Trumpets and Vials, which are continuous once they begin. This is shown from the fact that the last two Trumpets and the first Vial are linked together as being the "three woes." They are thus marked as consecutive.
 
So again, the Seals we can regard to as a summary of ALL the Divine judgments which will usher in the Day of the Lord.  After the last Seal, there is a break, shown by the "silence in heaven," and we are turned aside to see some further details as to these judgments, beginning with the Trumpets.  After the last Trumpet, there is no such break, no "silence in heaven" or on earth, but the last Trumpet at once ushers in and contains and develops the final judgments of the seven Vials, which finish up the mystery or secret purpose of God.  We can read in Rev. 10:7 that "in the days of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." The seventh Trumpet expands into the seven Vials, and these end with the final destruction of Babylon, which closes up these earthly judgment scenes.
 
Matt. 24.                      The Seals.                                                 Rev. 6.
4, 5                                1st The False Christ                                  1,2
6, 7-                                    2nd Wars                                             3, 4
-7-                                      3rd Famines                                         5, 6
-7                                     4th Pestilences                                      7, 8
8-28                                5th Martyrdoms                                      9-11
29 - 30                            6th Signs in Heaven of Advent               12-17
 
Matt. 24. covers the whole period of the six Seals and shows that the sixth Seal takes us up to the signs immediately preceding the Advent of the Lord in Glory, as seen in Rev. 19.

Hope this helps a little @Diaste.

Selah
 
 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Selah7

[not an echo]

On 7/10/2021 at 6:11 AM, Diaste said:

I remember you saying in the past that since we are on a globe when Jesus arrives there can only be people on one side of the globe to be able to fulfill 'every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him'. 

Hello Diaste,

Well, I didn't quite make it back before the day was done Saturday.  We had a big storm roll in in Western Kentucky and my downstairs AC unit (just 2-3 years old!) went out, of all things.  I ended up outside working on it, my wife in a slicker holding an umbrella for me (us!) even until 1:00 a.m. Sunday morning!  Wasn't able to get it to going then, but, come daybreak, I succeeded in time to get to church.  Some places around here got over six inches of rain.  I had to back track two different places where the water was over the road, and ended up getting to church about 10 minutes late.  And, I'm the pastor!  The ordeal ended up making for a great message illustration, so, in the end we were all laughing about it. 

Concerning your post, I've never said it quite like that.  God can effect "every eye" seeing Him anyway He wants!  But, sometimes He reveals to us how He is going to effect what He wants.  It has become quite an engaging thought for me that what happens with the sounding of the first four trumpets (Rev. 8) may be what God's plans are concerning all of this.  In a nutshell, if the "third part" destruction in connection with the sounding of the first four trumpets is concentrated and hemisphere specific, this could effectively extinct the population on one side of the earth.  If that side of the earth is our side---our Western Hemisphere---this would bring the focus to bear upon the other side of the earth, or Israel's side of the earth and the lands of the Bible days.  This would make for a stage reset, if you will, for the playing out of the final week of Daniel's 70th Weeks prophecy.  Interestingly, this would mean that, just as what is on our side of the world did not factor in in the fulfilling of the first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy, neither will it factor in in the last week.  Equally interesting is that the land area of what is in our hemisphere is one third of the land area of the earth, to within less than one percentage point.  More interesting than all of this is that if this is indeed to be the case, this takes all the mystery away from how "every eye" will simultaneously see Christ at His Second Advent, as the only people left on the face of the earth at that time will be those in Israel's hemisphere.  All of this is a focus of my thread, The First Four Trumpets (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249206-the-first-four-trumpets/).  It is the first thread I ever started on the Worthy forum.

On 7/10/2021 at 6:11 AM, Diaste said:

A couple things occurred to me. One, those who pierced Him are whom? The ones who platted the crown of thorns, the ones who drove in the nails, the one who stabbed Him with the spear? Like in a literal sense? Or maybe you consider the 'ones who pierced Him' as the descendants of the piercers?

I can see this either way or both.  If the rich man in hell could see "Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom" (Lk. 16:23), I can easily see those "which pierced Him" seeing Him at His Second Advent (or even at His Sign Appearance, for that matter).  Kind of similar to what I said above, God can make it where anyone can see Him that He wants to see Him, any time and any way He wants.  In Revelation 1, the Bible does say,

 7  Behold, He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him:  and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.  Even so, Amen.

According to the way I see it all, that's the way it is going to be.  Howbeit, in some ways, just not as many have began to suppose.  For example, ain't nobody gonna be havin' to look at his or her cell phone or television screen to see Christ's Second Advent.  Mark it down, He's going to be seen IN PERSON!  Now, this don't mean that everyone is going to be glad...

On 7/10/2021 at 6:11 AM, Diaste said:

A couple things occurred to me. One, those who pierced Him are whom? The ones who platted the crown of thorns, the ones who drove in the nails, the one who stabbed Him with the spear? Like in a literal sense? Or maybe you consider the 'ones who pierced Him' as the descendants of the piercers? No matter. The real question follows:

How does it work with the moon and the sun? Bear with me...

The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; [Matt]

The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; [Mark]

There will be signs in the sun and moon [Luke]

the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, [Rev 6]

The sun and moon grow dark, [Joel 2]

The sun and moon will grow dark, [Joel 3]

And a few more, but you get the idea.

From the Gospels and Rev 6 we see the sun and moon going out is followed immediately by the coming of Jesus. There isn't even 24 hours.

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory

Rev 6

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the... 

Etc., 'hid themselves'....called on the rocks to bury them...and so on.

Point is when the sun and moon go out everyone on earth is afraid as they know Jesus is coming right then.

If everyone is on one side of the earth and the sun and moon go dark how would people know that? The moon would be on the other side of the earth if it was say, noon when Jesus came back. Or the sun would be on the other side if Jesus returns at night, again with no one to witness it. Or the light of the moon is obscured by the brightness of the sun and they would not see the moon go dark or turn blood red.

The stars falling has kind of the same problem. Possibly the stars would streak to their demise and we could see that as they fell, even in the bright light of the sun, but it's doubtful, the stars are seen at night. 

Awaiting your objections.

Picking back up with the last part of your first paragraph,  "No matter. The real question follows:  How does it work with the moon and the sun? Bear with me..."  which connects with your later statement, "If everyone is on one side of the earth and the sun and moon go dark how would people know that?",  realize that my reasoning concerning the only remaining people being on "one side of the earth" does not connect with the opening of the 6th Seal at all, but with the sounding of the first four trumpets.  Said another way, at the time of the opening of the 6th Seal, the earth will be wholly populated as it presently is, with the attending cataclysms affecting the whole earth.  But, at the sounding of the first four trumpets, Scripture supports the hemisphere specific cataclysms that I have heretofore spoken of.

Just a little side bar (that I have brought up before):  Because of the absence of any prohibiting time frames here (as The Revelation gives in many other places), I submit that the opening of the first four trumpets can happen later, the same day that the 6th and 7th Seals are opened.  Consider:  If this happens today (Monday), then tomorrow will be a day of "woe" (sounding of the 5th Trumpet).  Also, all the days after that (at least five months/Rev. 9:5, 10) will be days of "woe" until the 6th and 7th Trumpets are sounded.  These will continue the days of "woe" (Rev. 9:12-13 with 11:14-15) for seven more years---Rev. 11:2-3 with 12:6, 14 and 13:5/all in reference to JUST TWO 3-1/2 year time periods---until Christ's Second Advent.  The significance?  One of these days the resurrection and the rapture is going to take place, concurrent with major havoc breaking loose upon this earth.  All the days after that will be days of WOE upon the earth till Jesus comes again.  Said a different way, if the Lamb opens the 6th Seal on a Monday, then Tuesday will be a day of WOE for the unsaved, as will all the days thereafter, till Jesus returns to reign.  Said still a different way, between the time of the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:29-31/Rev. 6:12-7:17) and the time of His Second Advent (Matt. 24:26-28/Rev. 19:11-21), all the days will be days of WOE.  It is not going to be a good thing to be an unsaved person on the day of the rapture, whichever side of the earth one may be on at the time.

Edited March 25, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:26 AM, Diaste said:

On 7/10/2021 at 1:50 PM, not an echo said:

Sorry Diaste, it's just not so.  This interpretation will not harmonize with all of Scripture. 

Okay.

Then please point out the scripture to which the last trump, the trump of great sound, the trump of God and the 7th trump of Revelation as being all the same does not harmonize.

Here are some of the first things that come to my mind, some I have pointed out over the course of several months now.  Your interpretation of all the above trumpets being the same does not harmonize with the following:

#1---The very apparent chronological order of Scripture in The Revelation.  What is revealed in the first 10 chapters is in the strictest chronological order possible.  It is not even in the realm of possibility for it to be arranged in a more chronological fashion.  What is in the next ten chapters is in chronological order as well, but in an OVERLAPPING, progressive, and logical fashion, without fail.  Previously, you have argued that there is overlapping information, and then referred to my position negatively, making it appear as if I think there are no overlaps.  I think you do that to make me cringe, as it seems your manner is.   Finally, the last two chapters continue chronologically, but as a whole.  As I have come to see it, this order is so logical and symmetrical, that it is like a Divine indicator that a true key for our understanding has been revealed.  I submit that you, and all, will be miles ahead when you see it.  Consider afresh my thread, The Chronological Order of The Revelation (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249470-the-chronological-order-of-the-revelation/).

#2---The Sealing of the 144,000 at the time of the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 7:1-8).  If the 7th Trumpet is sounded at the time of the opening of the 6th Seal, just before the pouring out of God's wrath (as I understand your position), this leaves no time (that will accommodate your view) for what we find in Revelation 12 and 13, which includes them (e.g., 12:11;  13:7).

#3---The possibility of Christ coming suddenly and unexpectedly, or as a thief.  Just after the two witnesses have finished their testimony, and everything connected with that (Rev. 11:3-12/hope you will read it right now), we have this...

 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:  and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of Heaven.

and then this is said...

 14 The second woe is past;  AND BEHOLD, THE THIRD WOE COMETH QUICKLY.

 15 AND THE SEVEN TRUMPET SOUNDED...

All of this, and Christ is going to come suddenly and unexpectedly, like a thief???  I guess all the unsaved will have been living in a vacuum up until this time.

#4---Paul's words concerning none who are presently saved, Jew or Gentile, being here when the Antichrist is revealed.  That they will be here till the sounding of the 7th Trumpet is in conflict with this from II Thessalonians 2:

 1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (for the rapture), and by our gathering together unto Him (during the rapture)

 2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (His Second Advent) is at hand.

 3  Let no man deceive you by any means:  for THAT DAY (Christ's Second Advent) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

It is on the basis of the the rapture, or "our gathering together unto Him" (vs. 1/cp. I Thess. 4:16-17 and Matt. 24:31) that these Thessalonian Christians were told to not be soon "shaken in mind, or be troubled."

#5---Jesus' words concerning the days of Noah and Lot (Matt. 24:36-39ff and Lk. 17:26-30ff).  In the days of both Noah and Lot, everything was in line with what is considered normal, till it wasn't.  It was like it is NOW, IN OUR DAY.  It was not like it is going to be at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.  To have it according to your interpretation is tantamount to Noah and his family and all the animals not making it into the ark until the flood was in full swing.  Or, to Lot and his family having to dodge all the brimstone and fire.

We see some on those talent shows that sing their heart out and don't realize how off key they are.  I'm glad for the thought that they can at least be given an A for their effort.  I guess we all need that sometimes.  I know, I know.  I'm having a thought or two myself.

Kinda curious.  What are you seeing about my interpretations that won't harmonize with Scripture?

Edited March 25, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:35 AM, Diaste said:

On 7/10/2021 at 1:50 PM, not an echo said:

Concerning your opening paragraph, I don't think you are quite understanding me.  There is no gap.  His coming here is as a "thief" for all the saved.  Like with a thief, He is coming for the goods (all the saved), and then He is going to be gone.  What He does is going to be sudden and unexpected.  Only thing is, at the time He gets the goods, He is also going to make an appearance. 

This isn't a gap? He comes then goes? 

I had said:

"I'm thinking, even if it is but a glimpse that they get, their glimpse will be of Him "with power and great glory"!  In my concept, it is but a glimpse that they will get, and it will be so bright, that when they get through rubbing their eyes, He will be gone.  And, everyone who was saved will be gone with Him, "caught up" (I Thess. 4:17;  Matt. 24:31) by the angels.  Moreover, 144,000 Jews will be converted at the sight, like Paul was on the road to Damascus.  But, all the rest, what they see in this "twinkling of an eye" moment (not to mention everything else taking place) will strike fear in their hearts." 

Your reply was:

"And this is now speculative. Maybe it's the case but it's not said what the Sign is. You are placing a gap between the Sign and "They will see the Son of Man coming" There is no gap in the text..."

--------------------

A first thought, in looking afresh at what Your reply was, is this:  What do you mean, "it's not said what the Sign is"?

Jesus said this, in Matthew 24:

 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:  and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Where is it that I am placing a gap?  I am not placing a gap, but, it looks like to me (if I am understanding you correctly) that you may be trying to divide something, right where Jesus is making a connection.

To clarify my interpretation further, I see THE WHOLE of the verse here as descriptive of the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven."  I believe you may be trying to divide the verse, so that "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" here is a different event than "the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."  Is this what you are saying?  If you are, then, not only are you making a division in the verse, but, I think you are going to be needing a gap.

We can only try to imagine what the sight of the appearance of the sign of the Son of man in heaven will be.  I mean, when I think of what John wrote, "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together" (Rev. 6:14), that is huge!  And, when I contemplate the reaction of the world, "hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb" (Rev. 6:16), I think they are most assuredly seeing something that inspires such words.  They ain't seeing some kind of alien!  But, according to what Jesus says in the last half of the verse, "and they shall see the Son of man coming..." (Matt. 24:30b), I can certainly envision Christ descending further (I Thess. 4:16-17), to receive all the saved to Himself (John 14:3).  And, like I have repeatedly conveyed, this is going to happen so quickly, that it will be on the order of a glimpse, and so bright, that by the time they get through rubbing their eyes, He will be gone.  I can even imagine that what they see will remain etched in their eyes for a bit, like the effect any sudden brightness can leave in our eyes.

Concerning this event, Jesus says, "and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son... (Matt. 24:30).  In John's account of the 6th Seal, he writes, "And I heard the number of them which were sealed:  and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev. 7:4).  Next, in Jesus' account, there is the gathering of "His elect from the four winds" (Matt. 24:31), which corresponds to the "great multitude" (Rev. 7:9) that John writes of next.

Before moving forward, it just seems to me that you have been back and forth on this thing of the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven."  You kind of acknowledge it, then it's all iffy, and then you seem to want to make a separation, but not sure how much of one, then it's like a convergence.  We all know that there are mysteries here, "For now we see through a glass darkly" (I Cor. 13:12).  But, where you're headed if you try to converge Christ's Sign Appearance too closely with His Second Advent is the "thief" giving the world a big heads-up of almost exactly when His coming is going to take place!  As I am seeing things, you are essentially doing that with your interpretation of the 7th Trumpet already.  I've been about ready to say "check" to you.  Better move carefully, or it will be checkmate.  Just giving you a little heads-up.

On 7/11/2021 at 6:35 AM, Diaste said:

On 7/10/2021 at 1:50 PM, not an echo said:

 

Common thieves try to avoid making an appearance, because they don't want to get caught.  But, Jesus is not bound by the same concerns that common thieves are.  Of course, later, at the event of His Second Coming, He will return to stay.  Well, for a 1000 years, that is.  With Mark and Luke's accounts, they just don't record what Jesus said concerning "the sign" (Matt. 24:30).  But, what they have recorded is of the very same event.  Don't let it throw you what is written about Him being seen "with power and great glory."  The next time Jesus is seen by anyone, whether it be His Sign Appearance, His Second Coming, many eyes or every eye, a glimpse, or His abiding presence, He will be seen "with power and great glory."

Oh yeah, pretrib. Multiple appearances. Multiple gatherings. Gatherings before gatherings, etc. No pretrib dogma is convincing to me. It used to be. Then I found out it's implausible at best.

There you go again, saying things that make me cringe.   First of all, I much prefer the phrase, pre-Daniel's 70th Week.  Even better than this, as I see it, is pre-Day of the Lord.  But, everyone is used to talking pre-trib.  So, sometimes I follow suit.  Further, the only appearance that I talk about (relating to Christ) is the one Christ talked about, the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:30).  Further still, the only gathering that I talk about (relating to the saved) is the one Jesus talked about, when the angels "shall gather together His elect" (Matt. 24:31), which is the same gathering that Paul talked about (I Thess. 4:17/II Thess. 2:1).

It must be realized that Christ's Sign Appearance is very distinct from and different than His Second Advent.  There is a lot that happens between these two events, and a significant amount of time as well.  Like, at least seven years and five months.  Not one year, not six months, not one month or a day or a few hours.  AT LEAST SEVEN YEARS AND FIVE MONTHS.  There are about a zillion examples (like parables) that illustrate the difference in Christ's Sign Appearance and His Second Advent.  It's like the difference between seeing a movie preview and going to the theater to see the show.  It's like the difference between seeing the world champion fighter get out of his limousine and seeing him make his way down to the ring to defend his title.  It's like the difference in seeing the unveiling of Chrysler's newest muscle car and having one pull into your driveway, bought by your rich father to be given to you.  It's like catching a glimpse of your bride-to-be before the ceremony, and watching her make her entrance when the playing of "Here Comes The Bride" begins.  Of course, with Christ, it will be "Here Comes The Groom"!

Just so you know, I do agree with you concerning the common pre-trib view.  I believe some bad paths have been taken to try to salvage it.  My interpretations are not even an overhaul of it.  Mine is A Totally Different Pre-Daniel's 70th Week Rapture Interpretation (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/253935-a-totally-different-pre-daniels-70th-week-rapture-interpretation/).

Edited March 25, 2023 by not an echo
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