There are words I have never heard in the bible

[Sparks]

3 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

God saved people the same way in the Old and new Testament, which are the same covenant or agreement that God made with His chosen ones. It's through the sacrifice of Christ. 

There was a covenant with one nation, Israel, and then another covenant with all nations, including Israel. 

[Eternally Gratefull]

15 minutes ago, Sparks said:

There was a covenant with one nation, Israel, and then another covenant with all nations, including Israel. 

true.

But there has been only one covenant which has ever saved anyone from adam until everyone today

All people of all times are saved by grace through faith

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:32 AM, Riverwalker said:

Word's I never saw in the bible

• Catholic
• Protestant
• Orthodoxy
• Baptist (well except for John)
• Calvinist
• Arminian
• Lutheran
• Methodist
• Pentecostal
• Presbyterian 
• Episcopal 
• and so on and so forth

How did we ever let ourselves get so divided to the point that we separate ourselves from  other Christians?  Sometimes even pridefully perching ourselves on the pillar of truth and looking down on all others. Doesn't this confusion and strife strike you as the calling card of our enemy of old?

What I have read in the bible is that we are one church, One Body and Christ is the Head

1 Corinthians 12:25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Why do we allow the body of Christ to be carved up with the labels of men?

When anyone asks me what I am, my answer is simple. I am Christian

Day of Pentecost is how Pentecostal came to be.   Much like John the Baptist is why the Baptist chose their name

[Sparks]

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

That is a shame.

It is a shame, because I was hoping for evidence, not negative inference.   But thanks for giving it a shot.

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

1) Israel was supposed to spread God's word to the nations.

2) Saved Gentiles are now grafted in to spiritual Israel.

All nations are included today in the New Covenant.  Jesus changed everything.

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

The same Greek word is translated "belief" and "faith", in the NT. 

According to Strong's Concordance:

In Scripture, faith and belief are not exactly the same. Faith always comes from God and involves His revelation therefore faith is beyond belief!

In a general sense, each requires making a choice.  For example, if I wanted to board a flight, I would have to choose if I have faith (trust) in the plane to carry me.  I would have to choose if I believe any evidence presented, just as a court would.

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

I'm sad that you don't believe what the Bible says about this; but, God is sovereign and he can open your heart, just as he opened Lydia's.

It's a certainly cute idea, but I am already born again and saved.  I know accepting a gift from God saved me, and that I was not forced.  It was my choice, just as it's a person's choice to accept or decline any gift.

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

I was witnessing, not chatting.

Surprise!  I am already saved.

[Sparks]

28 minutes ago, Eternally Gratefull said:

 

All people of all times are saved by grace through faith

Today, there is a window of opportunity to choose your destiny by accepting or declining the gift of salvation.   You have until your death to make the choice.  Romans describes how to accept this gift in this scripture:

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 

There is a relatively small group, a sub-denomination, that believes you are saved before birth as if salvation is assigned, who are called Calvinists or the New Reformed. 

I don't really see scriptural evidence for this idea, instead only a negative inference of scripture.  I agree that God knows all, and He knows how it will turn out for each of us, but He let's us choose Him.  I also agree that God can do anything He wants, but I don't think He goes back on His offers, or His word, ever.  He has made us an offer.  I would even agree that God calls to people, probably to all of us, but some rebel harder than others and miss the call.

Today, salvation is offered to everyone who wants it.  It's a free gift for the taking, and like any gift you are allowed to choose or decline it.  

John 3:16 (NLT) “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

It sure looks like everyone means everyone in that scripture, doesn't it?

As far as people in the old covenant being covered by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, I am not sure how that works.  I do not understand how the dead have faith, or would know to have faith, unless God made a special arrangement for them, which might be what happened.

Do you have scripture that could show me how Jesus sacrifice did this?

[Eternally Gratefull]

6 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Today, there is a window of opportunity to choose your destiny by accepting or declining the gift of salvation.   You have until your death to make the choice.  Romans describes how to accept this gift in this scripture:

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 

There is a relatively small group, a sub-denomination, that believes you are saved before birth as if salvation is assigned, who are called Calvinists or the New Reformed. 

I don't really see scriptural evidence for this idea, instead only a negative inference of scripture.  I agree that God knows all, and He knows how it will turn out for each of us, but He let's us choose Him.  I also agree that God can do anything He wants, but I don't think He goes back on His offers, or His word, ever.  He has made us an offer.  I would even agree that God calls to people, probably to all of us, but some rebel harder than others and miss the call.

Today, salvation is offered to everyone who wants it.  It's a free gift for the taking, and like any gift you are allowed to choose or decline it.  

John 3:16 (NLT) “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

It sure looks like everyone means everyone in that scripture, doesn't it?

As far as people in the old covenant being covered by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, I am not sure how that works.  I do not understand how the dead have faith, or would know to have faith, unless God made a special arrangement for them, which might be what happened.

Do you have scripture that could show me how Jesus sacrifice did this?

gen 15: ⁶ And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

 

Rom 4:

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? ² For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. ³ For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was ^[b]accounted to him for righteousness.” ⁴ Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

⁵ But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, ⁶ just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

⁷ “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
⁸ Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

⁹ Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. ¹⁰ How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. ¹¹ And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, ¹² and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

¹³ For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. ¹⁴ For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, ¹⁵ because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

¹⁶ Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be ^[d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 

Abraham did not know Jesus by Name, But he trusted that God would take care of his sin issue, His faith saved him, David understood this fact about imputed righteousness to those who have faith also.

We are all saved. As abraham was, By grace through faith. The only difference is our redemption has been paid. And we know how it was paid.

 

 

[Sparks]

2 minutes ago, Eternally Gratefull said:

gen 15: ⁶ And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

 

Rom 4:

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? ² For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. ³ For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was ^[b]accounted to him for righteousness.” ⁴ Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

⁵ But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, ⁶ just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

⁷ “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
⁸ Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

⁹ Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. ¹⁰ How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. ¹¹ And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, ¹² and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

¹³ For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. ¹⁴ For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, ¹⁵ because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

¹⁶ Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be ^[d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 

Abraham did not know Jesus by Name, But he trusted that God would take care of his sin issue, His faith saved him, David understood this fact about imputed righteousness to those who have faith also.

We are all saved. As abraham was, By grace through faith. The only difference is our redemption has been paid. And we know how it was paid.

 

 

This seems to be addressing the living.  Not the dead.

[Eternally Gratefull]

3 minutes ago, Sparks said:

This seems to be addressing the living.  Not the dead.

Was abraham dead when he was made righteous in Gen 15? Decades before he even offered up his son?

 

Was David dead when he spoke those words? Or when God told us David was a man after his own heart because of his great faith?

 

 

 

 

[Sparks]

Just now, Eternally Gratefull said:

Was abraham dead when he was made righteous in Gen 15? Decades before he even offered up his son?

Was David dead when he spoke those words? Or when God told us David was a man after his own heart because of his great faith?

 

 

 

 

Was Jesus dead on the cross before any of these people were dead?  No. 

If Jesus' sacrifice on the cross extends backwards in time, how do people of that time who are quite dead now, show their faith and accept the gift?  Is there scripture that shows how your theory works?

[Eternally Gratefull]

34 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Was Jesus dead on the cross before any of these people were dead?  No. 

If Jesus' sacrifice on the cross extends backwards in time, how do people of that time who are quite dead now, show their faith and accept the gift?  Is there scripture that shows how your theory works?

I am confused.

 

I just posted an OT passage which showed HOW abraham was saved. And pauls words which also showed how all people in the OT were saved.

 

What more can I do?