A look at Sabbath. Shadow or substance?

[Whyme]

Please see the scripture  below, clearly the sabbath day (Saturday, Sunday), like the Law of sacrifice, is just a shadow. Agreed?

Quote

Hebrews 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven.                  Colossians 2:16 Therefore, no one is to [p]act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath [q]day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the [r]substance belongs to Christ.

The question is, do we still serve the Shadow or the substance?  This scripture below doesnt mention Sabbath day, but if Sabbath day is a shadow like the sacrificial law was, why would we serve the shadow sabbath instead of the New Covenant Sabbath? I assume if Sabbath is a shadow that there must be a New Covenant sabbath as well? Isn't the old, the shadow,  passed away?

Quote

 

Hebrews 8:4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are [d]those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses [e]was warned by God when he was about to erect the [f]tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things by the pattern which was shown to you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no [g]circumstances would have been sought for a second. 8 For in finding fault with [h]the people, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care about them, says the Lord...

...13 [l]When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is [m]about to disappear.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Whyme

[Whyme]

Hebrews 4:4-11 is not about Saturday or Sunday. Agreed? Surely some of those people obeyed sabbath right? But God wouldn't give them the real rest? The real rest must be found in Christ as we forsake our evil works and do His works instead. 

 

Hebrews 4:4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying [c]through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if [d]Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9 Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11 Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Whyme

[PeterR]

 

We can say that this is the kind of heaven that we are already achieving here on earth.

Heb 4: 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
(G4520 - sabbatismos)

If you realize what a shadow is, sooner or later you will understand that there must also be a source of light and you will turn your face to it.

 

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

[Whyme]

6 hours ago, electlady said:

Amen, Whyme.

Our rest and our Sabbath is completely in Christ.  In the Hebrew, “Sabbath” means “rest.”  When Christ rose from the dead, He became our Sabbath.  A Christian should rest in Christ every day of the week; He is our Passover.

Colossians 2:16-17

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 

~el

Thank you. I feel like God has opened my eyes to this scripture.

[Whyme]

5 hours ago, PeterR said:

 

We can say that this is the kind of heaven that we are already achieving here on earth.

Heb 4: 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
(G4520 - sabbatismos)

If you realize what a shadow is, sooner or later you will understand that there must also be a source of light and you will turn your face to it.

 

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Thank you. 

[BobRyan]

The Ark of the Covenant had in it - the Ten Commandments. And that included the command "do not take God's name in vain". Given the statement in the OP - that the earthly sanctuary was a shadow of the heavenly - one should argue that we no longer avoid taking God's name in vain since that was "just a shadow". I think we all see the problem with that logic.

Eph 6:1-2 says the command "honor your father and mother" is the first commandment with a promise. That is only true in the context of "the unit of Ten".

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" is another example of Paul affirming the Ten.

James 2 "he who is guilty of breaking one of them - is guilty of breaking all of them" -- which included the Ten.

The Ten (all Ten) are included in the "Law of God written on the heart and mind" under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 which is quoted verbatim and unchanged in the New Testament in Heb 8:6-12

 

So that means that these examples given below would agree with the Saturday-Sabbath groups like Seventh-day Adventist, Seventh-day Baptists, Messianic Jews etc.

• The Baptist Confession of Faith - section  19
• The Westminster Confession of Faith - Section 19
• C.H. Spurgeon
• Martin Luther
• The Roman Catholic Church
• D.L. Moody
• Eastern Orthodox
• (many others)

 

=============================================

What is interesting is that at this point all of the statements above are agreed to by Bible scholarship on BOTH sides of the Sabbath saturday/sunday debate in almost all major Christian denominations.  In other words that is what they would term "the easy part" of the discussion where the Bible details are so obvious that both sides admit to them.

Edited May 2, 2021 by BobRyan
add groups as examples of those in agreement, and format list

[BobRyan]

Where then is the difference on this topic in respect to the Bible scholarship in almost all major Christian denominations?

Differences are in how that 4th commandment can or cannot be edited over time. So then these texts come up in that discussion - 

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" gospel preaching to both Jews and gentiles

Acts 13 - gentiles ask for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath"

Acts 15 - the argument that within the Christian context "Moses is read every Sabbath" Acts 15:21 and this is key to solving the disputed within the Christian community of whether Gentiles had to become Jews to be saved.

[Whyme]

3 hours ago, BobRyan said:

The Ark of the Covenant had in it - the Ten Commandments. And that included the command "do not take God's name in vain". Given the statement in the OP - that the earthly sanctuary was a shadow of the heavenly - one should argue that we no longer avoid taking God's name in vain since that was "just a shadow". I think we all see the problem with that logic.

Eph 6:1-2 says the command "honor your father and mother" is the first commandment with a promise. That is only true in the context of "the unit of Ten".

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" is another example of Paul affirming the Ten.

James 2 "he who is guilty of breaking one of them - is guilty of breaking all of them" -- which included the Ten.

The Ten (all Ten) are included in the "Law of God written on the heart and mind" under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 which is quoted verbatim and unchanged in the New Testament in Heb 8:6-12

 

So that means that these examples given below would agree with the Saturday-Sabbath groups like Seventh-day Adventist, Seventh-day Baptists, Messianic Jews etc.

• The Baptist Confession of Faith - section  19
• The Westminster Confession of Faith - Section 19
• C.H. Spurgeon
• Martin Luther
• The Roman Catholic Church
• D.L. Moody
• Eastern Orthodox
• (many others)

 

=============================================

What is interesting is that at this point all of the statements above are agreed to by Bible scholarship on BOTH sides of the Sabbath saturday/sunday debate in almost all major Christian denominations.  In other words that is what they would term "the easy part" of the discussion where the Bible details are so obvious that both sides admit to them.

Hebrews 4 says there is another sabbath separate from the 4th Command. How do you interpret that?

Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Whyme

[Whyme]

5 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Where then is the difference on this topic in respect to the Bible scholarship in almost all major Christian denominations?

Differences are in how that 4th commandment can or cannot be edited over time. So then these texts come up in that discussion - 

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" gospel preaching to both Jews and gentiles

Acts 13 - gentiles ask for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath"

Acts 15 - the argument that within the Christian context "Moses is read every Sabbath" Acts 15:21 and this is key to solving the disputed within the Christian community of whether Gentiles had to become Jews to be saved.

It doesn't matter what most major churches teach, they are not infallible. They teach either Sunday or in your case Saturday rest. But is that the eternal Sabbath rest God promises? It doesnt seem to be. This is a rest only God can give, its eternal, not like the 4th command which is the shadow of the eternal.