Some Bible Stories as Representative

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

Another is the issue of the supposed later added last few verses of Mark which weren't in earlier copies apparently.  Maybe later Christian scribes felt the need to elaborate the end of the story.  I don't know. 

The only reason the last verses of Mark 16 are controversial is because they clearly and unequivocally describe a Christian by these signs - as most mainstream faiths do not measure up to this then they call into question the veracity of scriptures.

[Hopefully]

4 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

Well, for example, skeptics will point out the following.  

The two passages describe different types of stalls

1 Kings 4:26 says:

“Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen”.

2 Chronicles 9:25 says:

“Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen”.

The two verses do not contradict because they describe different types of stalls.

The stalls in 1 Kings 4:26 were "of horses" which were used for chariots and by horsemen. Nothing in this verse says that these stalls were for the chariots.

On the other hand, the stalls in 2 Chronicles 9:25 were for "horses and chariots". Such a stall to house both horses and chariots would not have been as numerous as stalls to house just horses because there is always a smaller ratio of chariots to horses.

In fact, 2 Chronicles 1:14 says there were 1,400 chariots. Hence it makes sense that there would be less of these stalls that were capable of storing both horses and chariots.

https://www.kjvtoday.com/home/40000-or-4000-in-1-kings-426

 

[Sower]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:03 AM, Amigo42 said:

I believe Jesus is the Son of God and our Atonement.  I don't believe He is literally the Father because he never claimed to be. Jesus always deferred to the Father. However, I don't need him to be God to be my Savior.  The prophecy states that God has given him power.

quote;   "I don't need him to be God to be my Savior"

Ok, but can you answer my question,

Do you believe Jesus has come in the flesh?

Your lack of response will answer for you...

[Justin Adams]

Yeshua (Jesus) is God and always has been. He said: Before Abram, I AM.

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

Well, for example, skeptics will point out the following.  

1 Kings 4:26 says:

“Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen”.

2 Chronicles 9:25 says:

“Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

Now, this may be a scribal error.  I don't know.  I'm not making a determination.  I'm only saying this is something that may be pointed out.  Regardless, it's not a salvation issue. Look I trust the Word.  I'm only stating that God doesn't want us to be so focused on the issue of inerrancy to the point of missing the main point.  This is just my humble opinion not law.  God knows.  I don't know everything.  

 

 

1 Kings 4:26 (ESV) Solomon also had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots, and 12,000 horsemen.

2 Chr. 9:25 (ESV) And Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots, and 12,000 horsemen, whom he stationed in the chariot cities and with the king in Jerusalem.

There are several possibilities that do not require there to be error here. The first, and most obvious, is that stalls for horses only are likely to be far more numerous than stalls large enough to be for horses and chariots.

There are other possibilities as well: for example, this is a quote from part of Gill's Commentary on 1 Ki. 4:26.

"...a reconciliation may be made, by observing, that here the writer, as Ben Gersom notes, gives the number of the horses that were in the stables, which were forty thousand, there the stables themselves, which were four thousand, ten horses in a stable; or here he numbers the stalls, which were forty thousand, and there the stables, which were four thousand, there being ten stalls in each; and the word there has the letter "yod" in it more than here, which is the numerical letter for "ten", and may point thereunto; or here the writer speaks of all the stalls for horses Solomon had throughout the kingdom, there of those only he had in Jerusalem. Benjamin of Tudela {g} affirms, that these stalls, or stables, which Solomon built very strong of large stones, are still in being in Jerusalem, and that there is no building to be seen like it any where; but no other writer speaks of them; nor is it at all probable that they should remain:..."

 

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

One minor example that is pointed out by skeptics is the number of Solomon's Stables and horses.  Another is the issue of the supposed later added last few verses of Mark which weren't in earlier copies apparently.  Maybe later Christian scribes felt the need to elaborate the end of the story.  I don't know.  I'm only saying whether or not these are accurate criticisms or not, these issues don't change anything about the story.  These are not salvation issues and should not shake anyone's confidence in the Bible.

The ending of the gospel of Mark (Mark 16:9-20) is contained in the VAST majority of extant Greek manuscripts that contain Mark 16.  There are only two main ones that end at Mark 16:8 (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus), both of which have obvious signs of having been tampered with, in this place.  One of them has a space where Mark 16:9-20 ought to be (the only such space in the entire manuscript) and the other has a strange increase in font size here, masking the fact that some verses are missing - again, the only such place in the manuscript where this occurs.

As well as the above, overwhelming, evidence in favour of the genuineness of Mark 16:9-20, there is the fact that verse 8 would be a ludicrous place to end a gospel...

Mark 16:8 (MKJV) And they went out quickly and fled from the tomb. For they trembled and were amazed. Neither did they say anything to anyone, for they were afraid. 

[Amigo42]

11 hours ago, Waggles said:

The only reason the last verses of Mark 16 are controversial is because they clearly and unequivocally describe a Christian by these signs - as most mainstream faiths do not measure up to this then they call into question the veracity of scriptures.

Honestly, whether Christian scribes added clarification to the end of Mark years after it was written doesn't necessarily bother me especially if they had special insight.  Maybe they knew eyewitnesses and felt the need to provide additional insight.  I mean in those days, I'm not sure that was considered that controversial to them.  Also, the entire Bible more than likely has several of these scribal clarifications including the OT.  I don't think it's controversial if done in good faith.  

[Amigo42]

3 hours ago, Sower said:

quote;   "I don't need him to be God to be my Savior"

Ok, but can you answer my question,

Do you believe Jesus has come in the flesh?

Your lack of response will answer for you...

Oh of course.  lol.  That's a basic requirement of being a Christian.  He most certainly did.  Amen!

[BeyondET]

8 minutes ago, Amigo42 said:

Honestly, whether Christian scribes added clarification to the end of Mark years after it was written doesn't necessarily bother me especially if they had special insight.  Maybe they knew eyewitnesses and felt the need to provide additional insight.  I mean in those days, I'm not sure that was considered that controversial to them.  Also, the entire Bible more than likely has several of these scribal clarifications including the OT.  I don't think it's controversial if done in good faith.  

I’d like to see day 4 and day 3 genesis 1 get switched back but no one will dare ? 

[Amigo42]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

1 Kings 4:26 (ESV) Solomon also had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots, and 12,000 horsemen.

2 Chr. 9:25 (ESV) And Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots, and 12,000 horsemen, whom he stationed in the chariot cities and with the king in Jerusalem.

There are several possibilities that do not require there to be error here. The first, and most obvious, is that stalls for horses only are likely to be far more numerous than stalls large enough to be for horses and chariots.

There are other possibilities as well: for example, this is a quote from part of Gill's Commentary on 1 Ki. 4:26.

"...a reconciliation may be made, by observing, that here the writer, as Ben Gersom notes, gives the number of the horses that were in the stables, which were forty thousand, there the stables themselves, which were four thousand, ten horses in a stable; or here he numbers the stalls, which were forty thousand, and there the stables, which were four thousand, there being ten stalls in each; and the word there has the letter "yod" in it more than here, which is the numerical letter for "ten", and may point thereunto; or here the writer speaks of all the stalls for horses Solomon had throughout the kingdom, there of those only he had in Jerusalem. Benjamin of Tudela {g} affirms, that these stalls, or stables, which Solomon built very strong of large stones, are still in being in Jerusalem, and that there is no building to be seen like it any where; but no other writer speaks of them; nor is it at all probable that they should remain:..."

 

This may very well be realistic.  However, my point is that it's not really that important in the grand scheme of God's plan.  What if the truth is that it was just an error that a later scribe decided to correct.  I don't know.  Maybe not.  This is just a possibility.  If it were determined that it was a genuine error, would that cause doubt in a Christian's mind about the veracity of the entire Bible?  My point is that it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.  It shouldn't be that way.