80% of Christians Do Not Hold to a PreTrib Rapture

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

I don't understand the year 600 thing.  Noah was 600 years old.  For this to have happened in the year 600, Noah would have had to have been born the same year God made Adam.

Corrected it.

[The Light]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

Then the LORD said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2You are to take with you seven pairs ofa every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate; a pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate; 3and seven pairs of every kind of bird of the air, male and female, to preserve their offspring on the face of all the earth. 4For seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living thing I have made.”

Even though this may look like God commanded Noah and his family to go into the ark with the animals at that moment it may or may not be true from the above. We see God gave the command, we don't see from the above Noah went in at that moment. God is making a statement about what Noah is to do and what God is about to do, in 7 days. I will allow it's possible Noah entered the ark with his family and the animals at this point.

 

"Now Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters came upon the earth. 7And Noah and his wife, with his sons and their wives, entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8The clean and unclean animals, the birds, and everything that crawls along the ground 9came to Noah to enter the ark, two by two, male and female, as God had commanded Noah."

Now we have a conflict. Is this already 7 days later? It's already looking like Noah entered the ark twice in the above two passages. We see the floodwaters here and God said it would be 7 days more before the flood happens. But I will grant this is the action of Noah based on the command from the first passage. It certainly looks to be the case.

 

"And after seven days the floodwaters came upon the earth. 11In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12And the rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights."

Now we are 7 days after the command from Gen 7:1-4. Also the very day the fountains of the great deep are broken up and the rains begin is very specific...2-17 of the 600th year of Noah 

"On that very day Noah entered the ark, along with his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and his wife, and the three wives of his sons— 14they and every kind of wild animal, livestock, crawling creature, bird, and winged creature. 15They came to Noah to enter the ark, two by two of every creatureb with the breath of life. 16And they entered, the male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in."

Uh oh... now the idea is refuted unequivocally Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood. Noah, family, and animals entered the ark 2-17 of the 600th year of Noah, the same day as the waters began to flood the earth. I get this doesn't fit well with pretrib. Or it does actually. Pretrib is adept at ignoring specific timing for events and then making up timing out of thin air. 

Noah was obviously in and out of the ark thousands of times over the course of 100 years as he had to build it. Maybe even eating and sleeping inside the ark. Who knows? There could have been birthday parties and anniversaries going on inside the ark for all we know. 

And you don't think Noah built it without the help of animals, do you? Even though scripture doesn't say this I'm betting beasts were used to haul timbers and even lift some. Noah didn't call up Home Depot for a delivery. Noah and animals were in and out of the ark daily for 100 years.

Our attention is being called to the relationship between Noah and family and beasts entering safety and when the wrath of God fell on the world; and that was on 2-17 in the 600th year when both wrath fell and entering the Lord's safety occurred.

There is no way Noah entered the ark 7 days before in the context of escape as pretrib suggests when scripture without doubt, in no uncertain terms, clearly, unequivocally says, 'on that same day'.

This is the very model of the salvation of the Lord for His people. On the day wrath begins the people of the Lord will be taken to safety and not before.

 

Each paragraph is a separate story of Noah entering the ark and the flood coming. You are taking the conclusion of one paragraph and using it as the beginning of another paragraph. But you obviously know that, as we can clearly see that Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Can't even come close to imagining why you would lie to yourself about what the word says. Noah was on the ark 7 days before the flood, like it or not.

Gen 7

 

¶ 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

² Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

³ Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

⁴ For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

⁵ And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

⁶ And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

 

¶

⁷and Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

⁸ Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

¹¹ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

 

 

¶

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

¹⁴ They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

¹⁵ And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

¹⁶ And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

¹⁷ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

[Montana Marv]

17 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

I don't understand the year 600 thing.  Noah was 600 years old.  For this to have happened in the year 600, Noah would have had to have been born the same year God made Adam.

I think it stems from what I posted.  Matt 24:37-38.  As is the days of Noah, so shall it be with the coming of the Son of Man; For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marring and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the Ark.  So the days of Noah before the flood were 600 years, thus "as in the days of Noah" people were eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, thus this is a 600 year period of eating and drinking.  All is going well, nothing to worry about.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Each paragraph is a separate story of Noah entering the ark and the flood coming. You are taking the conclusion of one paragraph and using it as the beginning of another paragraph. But you obviously know that, as we can clearly see that Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Can't even come close to imagining why you would lie to yourself about what the word says. Noah was on the ark 7 days before the flood, like it or not.

Gen 7

 

¶ 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

² Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

³ Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

⁴ For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

⁵ And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

⁶ And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

 

¶

⁷and Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

⁸ Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

¹¹ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

 

 

¶

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

¹⁴ They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

¹⁵ And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

¹⁶ And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

¹⁷ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Not lying to myself. I just don't allow for contradictions. Gen 7 is specific down to the date the flood began which is  the same day Noah was shut in the ark. Noah was in and out of the ark every day and it may have taken longer than 7 days for all the animals to get aboard, it's quite a few animals. 

The point is Noah was whisked away to safety the same day wrath began. 

 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

[Selah7]

On 5/3/2021 at 3:58 AM, Diaste said:

In spite of 1 Thess 4?

"16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

1 Cor 15?

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

I’m just now coming into this conversation.  

I’ve just recently started to wonder if many who say they believe in the rapture and quote the above scriptures, are actually just using the word “rapture” instead of the words “Second Coming (Second Advent).”  Maybe we’re in the same boat after all!

[Selah7]

… continued … 

maybe not in the same boat because it seems many rapture folks believe in a pre-trib “escape.” 

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not lying to myself. I just don't allow for contradictions. Gen 7 is specific down to the date the flood began which is  the same day Noah was shut in the ark. Noah was in and out of the ark every day and it may have taken longer than 7 days for all the animals to get aboard, it's quite a few animals. 

The point is Noah was whisked away to safety the same day wrath began. 

 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

You seem to want to ignore the fact the there was rain upon the earth 40 days and 40 nights. That is obviously a concluding statement to the paragraph.

Then a new paragraph starts. Verse 13 stands alone and has complete meaning on it own. It tells you that all Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark on the same day. 

Originally, you fought tooth and nail to tell me that it took Noah 7 days to load the animals. I guess you finally gave that up. Good for you. 

You had a post that I read recently where you were talking about there being so many days that the 2 witnesses were preaching before being killed. And so many days that the beast was in power, and so many days I think in Daniel. It was a long post with a lot of information that I wanted to read as I was only able to skim it at the time. Couldn't find it. Can you point me in the right direction?

[Spock]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:49 PM, missmuffet said:

That is their choice. Life is full of them. 

I agree with your simple sentiment here. I couldn’t care less what other people think or believe, especially regarding the rapture. Believe what you want to believe. Soon enough we shall all find out the truth. 
 

why would I care if someone thinks we are going to go through the entire great tribulation?  How does their belief affect my life? It doesn’t.  Do I want them to believe as I do? Nope. I don’t believe my faith can be transferred to anyone…it is mine. 
 

Lastly, not everyone can have great wisdom. You have to seek and pray for that.  Not many are qualified to receive such blessing. 
 

cheers,

spock out 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, The Light said:

You seem to want to ignore the fact the there was rain upon the earth 40 days and 40 nights. That is obviously a concluding statement to the paragraph.

Then a new paragraph starts. Verse 13 stands alone and has complete meaning on it own. It tells you that all Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark on the same day. 

Originally, you fought tooth and nail to tell me that it took Noah 7 days to load the animals. I guess you finally gave that up. Good for you. 

You had a post that I read recently where you were talking about there being so many days that the 2 witnesses were preaching before being killed. And so many days that the beast was in power, and so many days I think in Daniel. It was a long post with a lot of information that I wanted to read as I was only able to skim it at the time. Couldn't find it. Can you point me in the right direction?

Page 14 in this topic.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Spock said:

I agree with your simple sentiment here. I couldn’t care less what other people think or believe, especially regarding the rapture. Believe what you want to believe. Soon enough we shall all find out the truth. 
 

why would I care if someone thinks we are going to go through the entire great tribulation?  How does their belief affect my life? It doesn’t.  Do I want them to believe as I do? Nope. I don’t believe my faith can be transferred to anyone…it is mine. 
 

Lastly, not everyone can have great wisdom. You have to seek and pray for that.  Not many are qualified to receive such blessing. 
 

cheers,

spock out 

We aren't making a decision between Ford and Chevy here. This is the word of God. We need to listen.