80% of Christians Do Not Hold to a PreTrib Rapture

[Guest kingdombrat]

On 5/2/2021 at 12:58 PM, Diaste said:

From Prophecy Watchers:

Gary Stearman: Rapture Wars

It may surprise you but 80% of Christians don’t believe in a pre-Tribulation rapture. Many are convinced the church will endure the entire 7 year Tribulation. Others teach that Christians will face part of the Tribulation. Still others believe the prophecies of the Bible were all fulfilled in 70 AD, tossing aside the book of Revelation and its end-time prophecies. 

I read where [only English speaking people] [majority North American Continent] believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture.   It appears, if this is factual, that Americans and other members of North American Continent have a habit of twisting Scripture to serve their own purpose.

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

I read where [only English speaking people] [majority North American Continent] believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture.   It appears, if this is factual, that Americans and other members of North American Continent have a habit of twisting Scripture to serve their own purpose.

Yes, I heard the same.  

[Guest kingdombrat]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, I heard the same.  

For years people have complained about the KJV English translation.   And since most Americans use the KJV related English Versions and believe in a [False Pre-Trib Rapture], and since other translations don't reveal the same thing, I think it's safe to assume some English translations are not spot on with either the Hebrew, the Aramaic, nor the Greek Languages.

[Diaste]

12 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

For years people have complained about the KJV English translation.   And since most Americans use the KJV related English Versions and believe in a [False Pre-Trib Rapture], and since other translations don't reveal the same thing, I think it's safe to assume some English translations are not spot on with either the Hebrew, the Aramaic, nor the Greek Languages.

Agreed. I have increasingly turned to the Greek and English/ Greek translators for insight. Interesting things are revealed.

[DeighAnn]

16 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

 

The feast of the Lamb or the marriage where the wise virgins are taken, will take place in heaven, not on earth, read Revelation 19.

Indeed Revelation 19 starts out telling us

HE HATH JUDGED, HE HATH AVENGED. PAST TENSE. 

SO DO WE AGREE

These things COME BEFORE THE 'marriage'?


Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
 

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.




TRY to remember THE dividing of the Scriptures was done by MAN, not God.  So lets go to JUST WHAT IS WRITTEN.


And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant,

and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus

 worship God for




the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.  

now  read the testimony and REMEMBER 

what is spoken above is THE CONCLUSION

of THE EVENTS BELOW 


 THE EXPLANATION of how we arrived that point. 


 

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.

Revelation 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And He hath on his vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.


REMEMBER 

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the Brightness of His coming:

whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

[R. Hartono]

13 hours ago, electlady said:

Good morning...  Well, what it comes to is this....  It doesn’t matter what man says; it’s what God says that matters.  I think too many people are accepting false teaching because they are not studying God’s Word for themselves and are not able to recognize false doctrine when they hear it.  There are some very good teachers out there, don’t get me wrong, but we need to make sure that what they say aligns with what God says.

God tells us that the antichrist (Satan) comes first.  He comes at the 6th trump.  The Messiah (Jesus Christ) comes at the 7th trump.  It is written.  Who are you going to believe?  Man or God?  I hope it’s God—He is your Father and He will not lead you astray.  You can trust Him, and remember; He is still on the Throne!

—electlady 

The trumpet of Rapture is used to gather the elect, not the same with the 7 trumpets of punishment.

 

[WilliamL]

On 5/3/2021 at 6:52 AM, Justin Adams said:

Historically, the early Christians never taught the [pre-trib] rapture doctrine. This doctrine was not mentioned in any Christian literature before 1830. There were two key things the early disciple taught: the second coming of Christ and resurrection of the righteous dead. So, where did the rapture theory come from? Who popularised this theory? This doctrine was started, to a large degree, by a young Scottish girl named Margaret MacDonald.

Hardly. The rapture doctrine was started by Jesus and Paul. In such passages as Matt. 24:31, John 14:2, 1 Thes. 4:14-17., and Heb. 12:28-28. (None of these passages is pre-trib.)

[WilliamL]

On 5/3/2021 at 9:28 AM, Diaste said:

There a gathering misnamed "Rapture" and it's posttrib and prewrath.

You say tomatoes, I say...

Rapture is an Anglicized version

of the Latin term

for the Greek term harpazo,

which term Paul uses in 1 Thes 4:17, translated "caught up." Also found in 1 Cor. 12:2 and Rev. 12:5., with the same meaning. Works for me. 'Cuz that is what the elect will be: "caught up" in the clouds to Jesus, and to His Father's house in heaven.

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Hardly. The rapture doctrine was started by Jesus and Paul. In such passages as Matt. 24:31, John 14:2, 1 Thes. 4:14-17., and Heb. 12:28-28. (None of these passages is pre-trib.)

 

On 5/4/2021 at 11:46 PM, DeighAnn said:

Indeed Revelation 19 starts out telling us

HE HATH JUDGED, HE HATH AVENGED. PAST TENSE. 

SO DO WE AGREE

These things COME BEFORE THE 'marriage'?


Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
 

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.




TRY to remember THE dividing of the Scriptures was done by MAN, not God.  So lets go to JUST WHAT IS WRITTEN.


And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant,

and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus

 worship God for




the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.  

now  read the testimony and REMEMBER 

what is spoken above is THE CONCLUSION

of THE EVENTS BELOW 


 THE EXPLANATION of how we arrived that point. 


 

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.

Revelation 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And He hath on his vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.


REMEMBER 

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the Brightness of His coming:

whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

God wants us to escape the great tribulation before it begins !

 

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You say tomatoes, I say...

Rapture is an Anglicized version

of the Latin term

for the Greek term harpazo,

which term Paul uses in 1 Thes 4:17, translated "caught up." Also found in 1 Cor. 12:2 and Rev. 12:5., with the same meaning. Works for me. 'Cuz that is what the elect will be: "caught up" in the clouds to Jesus, and to His Father's house in heaven.

Yes. Harpazo is what appears in the taking up of the assembly.