Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Montana Marv]

3 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Rev. 19:1- And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:...

8- And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Well here is the bride in the air. AND she is only now-at the time Jesus comes on the white horse- given her new attire- NOT BEFORE!!! This is the post trib rapture.

 

False narritive

Now you say that the Bride is in the Air.  I have been saying this all along.  The Bride meets the Bridegroom in the Air.  The Bride does not meet the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in the Air.  The Bride has the view from heaven seeing the Second Coming from Above, those still alive on earth see the Second Coming from below.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Uriah]

14 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

 

One thing, the Bride rejoices at the sight of the Bridegroom.  The Bride does not mourn.  Now the angel gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other.  How did these elect get there?  The Rapture at an earlier date.  The angels also gather the elect from the four winds; North, South, East and West from Jerusalem, all physical flesh and blood bodies.  Later to be ruled by Christ with a rod of iron.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Rev. 7- 

 These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

So here are the brothers and sisters in Christ in the tribulation, looks like they have been mourning/ suffering (blessed are those who mourn) but they will rejoice when they see Him and He will come for them. Or perhaps you think the promises of the Gospel don't apply to them?

Edited August 15, 2019 by Uriah
spelling

[Montana Marv]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

Several reasons:

Paul says it was a vision.

All fell but none said they saw anything. 

Only a voice is heard.

Since it's not recorded anything was seen then we cannot say if Jesus appeared in physical form, only that it was a vision, which can be given from anywhere to anywhere.

If Jesus came back here it would contradict a dozen scriptures that say we will see Him return as they saw Him go.

Yet when Christ (the Bridegroom) meets His Bride in the Air, that is not a Coming to the Earth is it.  It is a coming for His Bride, come up heather.  Just as His appearance to Saul was not a coming.  So thus this cannot be considered Christ setting His feet of the Mt of Olives.  Two separate and distinct events.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

I didn't say that. I only pointed out the groups that fit a criteria and all were taken at the first resurrection when those who resisted the beast were gathered.

All are the bride, the elect, the gathered. You'll see.

Which group was promised the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

The first resurrection occurred at Christs Coming. I would assume if there are any left alive after the millennium, who are not those in New Jerusalem, would also face the final judgment of the 2nd death.

Scripture says Satan gathers ALL nations to battle against the Holy City and fire from God devours them all. They would all be dead in that case and would be raised in the 2nd resurrection to face the second death of the lake of fire. 

Yes, but what about those who are within the Camp of the Lord which were attacked.  How can Satan kill those already transformed and a part of the First Resurrection.  Satan cannot, thus those within the Camp of the Lord are still in their physical flesh and blood bodies able to have offspring, they have yet to be changed into a glorified body.

The First Resurrection is a position in Christ.  The Second Resurrection is a position outside from Christ.  The Resurrections are a position, not a sequence.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

35 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Rev. 7- 

 These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

So here are the brothers and sisters in Christ in the tribulation, looks like they have been mourning/ suffering (blessed are those who mourn) but they will rejoice when they see Him and He will come for them. Or perhaps you think the promises of the Gospel don't apply to them?

Wrong narrative

I thought you believed we are now in the time of tribulation.  Blessed are those who mourn; Part of the B Attitudes or Happy are those who Mourn, this is a position where we find ourselves Spiritually Bankrupt, the first step in Believing, then the rest of the Happy are those are a sequence for maturity in Christ.

God shall wipe away all their tears, now you are in the New Jerusalem era.  Nothing to do with coming out of the 70th Week and going into the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Yes, but what about those who are within the Camp of the Lord which were attacked.  How can Satan kill those already transformed and a part of the First Resurrection.  Satan cannot, thus those within the Camp of the Lord are still in their physical flesh and blood bodies able to have offspring, they have yet to be changed into a glorified body.

I guess. What I think, from what I read in the Millennial kingdom there are those required to come up and  worship every year and those are outside the City. 

"If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain." - Zech 14

But those within the camp are the saints of God and already transformed and ruling.

"And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city." -Rev 20 

Satan is loosed and...

"...will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth..."

So with this little bit of info I conclude all the nations are deceived and all are consumed with fire and there is no flesh left at the end of the 1000 years, then the 2nd resurrection where all the dead are judged.

6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The First Resurrection is a position in Christ.  The Second Resurrection is a position outside from Christ.  The Resurrections are a position, not a sequence.

In Christ

Montana Marv

You can say whatever you like but if the 1st resurrection happens 1000 years before the 2nd resurrection that is a sequence. A sequence of two, but still...

Not disagreeing it's also a position but it's obvious one happens after the other.

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Which group was promised the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Technically only Jews. 

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--" - John 14

 

"When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.  When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?" - Acts 2

Not only were Jews promised the Holy Spirit they were the first to receive the Spirit at Pentecost. It looks to me like unless a person is a Jew, or of Israel, of the seed of Abraham, The Holy Spirit was not promised to them.

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Yet when Christ (the Bridegroom) meets His Bride in the Air, that is not a Coming to the Earth is it. 

Depends. This is parousia to which you are referring, 'a continued presence'. If that's true (it is) then nothing is stopping the gathering and the subsequent arriving on the Mt of Olives. 

7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

It is a coming for His Bride, come up heather.  Just as His appearance to Saul was not a coming. 

When Jesus appears to gather the elect He comes and stays. Notice the similarities.

" Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: " 1 Thess 4

"and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

 

7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

So thus this cannot be considered Christ setting His feet of the Mt of Olives.  Two separate and distinct events.

I didn't say they were the same event. But Jesus is not required to gather the elect, then retreat for 7 years before He comes back to the Mt of Olives. 

It's like picking up a cousin and driving to a family reunion. You pick up the cousin, drive to the reunion and get out of the car and greet everyone, you don't sit in the car for 7 years.

 

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Wrong narrative

I thought you believed we are now in the time of tribulation.  Blessed are those who mourn; Part of the B Attitudes or Happy are those who Mourn, this is a position where we find ourselves Spiritually Bankrupt, the first step in Believing, then the rest of the Happy are those are a sequence for maturity in Christ.

God shall wipe away all their tears, now you are in the New Jerusalem era.  Nothing to do with coming out of the 70th Week and going into the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Can you show me where I have ever said that?

Look, your replies are evasive, blurry and lacking coherency intermittently. Do you plan on directly answering simple questions, will you go into offended mode? Just show me the SCRIPTURES that firmly support your position, please.