Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Psalms37:4]

6 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

The most important thing in this regard is to accept the Word without additions or alterations.  There is a warning about that, like receiving all the curses of the book.

Rev. 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Nice dodge. You avoided my question by changing the subject and diverting a question towards me instead. 

But anyways, here I actually agree with you for once. We are not to twist, add or take away anything in the bible and not just about prophecy alone. There will be severe consequences for those who tampers with the Word of God in the bible. Not referring to you, but don't be surprise to find out some will be in hell for this violation.

Now, let me ask you this. Why are you promoting a fallacy? The teachings of a post-trib is nowhere to be found in the bible, in fact, there's many scriptures that refutes a rapture happening after the tribulation. Here's one scripture for example that refutes a post-trib ratpure: Matthew 24:29-31.

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ³⁰ Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now let me ask you this question. How can there be a post-trib rapture when the elects are gathered from heaven? You can't rapture people already in heaven.

In a rapture, people go up to heaven, not come down from heaven. How did the elects get there before th end of the tribulation? Well it could of happened in a Pre-Trib rapture. It can also happen in a Mid-Trib rapture, and it can even happen in a Pre-Wrath rapture. 

But no way is it possible for this to happen in a post-trib rapture because the elects are already in heaven. There's no post-trib rapture to be found here. This is a fallacy to think Matthew 24:29-31 is the rapture. 

Contrary to what many post-tribbers claim, Christ actually does NOT descend from heaven to earth after the tribulation. This is a foolish nonsense someone made up during the 70's using Matthew 24:29-31 promoting the idea of a post-trib rapture claiming the Second Coming happens after the tribulation. This is wrong, look at the evidence.

 

Luke 21:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁵ “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; ²⁶ men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ²⁷ Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

Does this sound anything like the tribulation is already over? Does this sound anything like a time immediately after the tribulation? No of course not. When Jesus comes to earth at the second coming, the worst part of the tribulation is still ahead.

When Jesus comes at the second coming, He immediately goes to Armageddon. This event is still in the tribulation, at the 6th vial, and NOT after the tribulation. The a/c is still alive and you still have the 7th vial ahead. The tribulation is not over till both are done away. The tribulation doesn't end before the a/c dies.

Revelation 16:12-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. ¹³ And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth andof the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

¹⁵ “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

¹⁶ And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

 

Do you know what the coming in Matthew 24:29-31 is? That's not a scene of Jesus immediately descending upon earth from heaven. In Matthew 24:29-31, He's already been on earth for months, at least 75 days. This is given in the bible. 

So how do you get a post-trib rapture when Christ doesn't come to earth after the tribulation? This post-trib rapture theory, you do realized you're adding to the bible right? A lot of Christians pushing this idea is just digging themselves into a big hole when they find themselves stuck on earth after many had vanish. 

And God said He will add to those the plagues described in the bible. Do you know why many post-tribbers argue that in order for one to be saved, they must go through the tribulation and endure the wrath? The answer is found in Revelation 22:18. They are adding to the bible, so God has lifted His hand of protection from them and allowed the enemy to enter their thoughts convincing them they must go through the great tribulation

In case post-tribbers haven't figured it out yet, the post-trib rapture is satan's masterpiece against the rapture. A long time ago, he read the bible and saw the people of God (saints) being handed to the a/c to be slaughtered during the tribulation. What better idea to get as many of God's people in the tribulation than a psot-trib rapture by having them all think they must go through it.

 

Revelation 13:7 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁷ It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

 

Revelation 13:10 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

Daniel 7:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁵ He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

You seem to think that because tares are only mentioned once in the teaching of Jesus is not important but the pre-tribulation rapture which is not mentioned is very scriptural.  Is that correct?

No that's not correct! How many have I already told you, the parable of the wheat and tare is not about the rapture nor have anything to do with it?

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Blah, blah, blah. All that to say, "I'm not listening.... It's 'souls!'"

Yes you are. You'll reply back, 110% guaranteed! And it's not souls, it's air-breathers.

 

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If you think I base everything on the Greek Dictionary from Strong's Concordance, you are GREATLY MISTAKEN. I know the limitations of Strong's, for ALL human works are fallible, no exceptions! I use it solely as a "common denominator" between reasoning philosophies. Those who have not studied the original languages will have at least a rudimentary acceptance of Strong's Concordance and its dictionaries and be able to use the numbering system (which is used between several study helps based on the King James Authorized Version of the Bible) to look up the words for themselves and confirm what I'm claiming.

Why do you need a concordance to understand the bible? God is not the author of confusion. You must think God wrote the bible so complicated that you would need a concordance to understand it. I do well without it. I guess that's why I haven't fallen prey to the teachings of partial preterism. 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[seeking the lost]

10 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

But anyways, here I actually agree with you for once. We are not to twist, add or take away anything in the bible and not just about prophecy alone. There will be severe consequences for those who tampers with the Word of God in the bible. Not referring to you, but don't be surprise to find out some will be in hell for this violation.

Now, let me ask you this. Why are you promoting a fallacy? The teachings of a post-trib is nowhere to be found in the bible, in fact, there's many scriptures that refutes a rapture happening after the tribulation. Here's one scripture for example that refutes a post-trib ratpure: Matthew 24:29-31.

The only time that there can be a rapture is after a resurrection.  They are connected.  There is no freedom to add a resurrection or change the time or nature of the resurrection.  There are two basic passages that teach the rapture.  Once again here they are.

I Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
    Where, O death, is your sting?”

I Thessalonians 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

These passages link the rapture with the resurrection.  The resurrections are clearly defined the first and the second.  The time of both are fixed and non movable.  The first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation.  Those who have been faithful to death are raise to reign with Christ during the thousand years.  They do not go up as in a rapture.  The rest of the dead are raised at the end of the thousand years.  This is the resurrection of everyone not included in the first resurrection.  This is the time of the rapture.  The resurrection at the end of the thousand years is the only resurrection that fits the description of the rapture passages.  

Post Mill Rapture.  Reasoning of man and additions to scripture that accommodate a belief do not alter the truth.

 

[Psalms37:4]

testing

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

6 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

The rest of the dead are raised at the end of the thousand years.  This is the resurrection of everyone not included in the first resurrection.  This is the time of the rapture.  The resurrection at the end of the thousand years is the only resurrection that fits the description of the rapture passages.  

Post Mill Rapture.  Reasoning of man and additions to scripture that accommodate a belief do not alter the truth.  

A post millennial rapture?! Boy you are seriously lost when it comes to the rapture.

How do you get a rapture at the end of the millennium when Christ has already been on earth the last 1000 years? In the rapture, Christ comes down from heaven, not go up to heaven.

So does Christ go back up to heaven after the millennium and suddenly come back down to earth?

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[missmuffet]

15 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

A post millennial rapture?! Boy you are seriously lost when it comes to the rapture.

How do you get a rapture at the end of the millennium when Christ has already been on earth the last 1000 years? In the rapture, Christ comes down from heaven, not go up to heaven.

So does Christ go back up to heaven after the millennium and suddenly come back down to earth?

 

That person is either post millennial or a millennial. I know that the Catholics and Lutherans are a millennial. I do not know what other religions believe in that interpretation. They do not take the words in Revelation literally. They give the words their own meaning.

[Psalms37:4]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

They do not take the words in Revelation literally. They give the words their own meaning.

Yes, unfortunately I do noticed that. Makes me sad to see some many Christian doing the opposite what the bible tells us to do as we draw closer to Christ's return.

[Psalms37:4]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

What like the phrase second death to mean immortality for the wicked? 

Don't be so naive. Everyone have immortality upon death. The only distinction is their destination.

[Psalms37:4]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

And yet we find in scripture

Psalm 46:2

Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea,

Rev 8:8

The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,

Scripture tells us not to fear these things.

Lets not pretend you have the same intellectual capacity as satan to know his master plan.

Because not much of a masterplan when we are told not to fear these things and draw closer to God....in fact that would be the opposite of a masterplan.

That's good. You'll need a lot of courage during the tribulation after being handed to the a/c and getting your head cut off.

Revelation 20:4 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

 

Revelation 13:7 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁷ It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,tongue, and nation.

 

 

Daniel 7:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁵ He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

 

btw, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that satan would love to have all Christians and all Jews on earth during the tribulation so he can cut off the heads of everyone of God's people.

[Psalms37:4]

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

How do you get pre trib rapture here

Is this a serious question? I'm asking because because the answers were already posted in prior posts. If you didn't understand it then, what makes you think you will next time if I tell you to go back and reread everything or I repost what I already wrote? 

 

 

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As it was in the days of Noah

How do you get pre trib rapture? Noah faced tribulation so did Lot by the way.

That's funny! I don't recall reading about a post-trib / pre-wrath rapture happening during the days of Noah or Lot anywhere in the bible. So throw your rapture view out the window. And I don't recall a mid-trib rapture happening during the flood either.

In fact, I don't recall reading anywhere in the bible God telling Noah or Lot they would be rapture out of tribulation. You're looking awfully foolish here buddy!

There's only one rapture mentioned in the entire bible and we're told it's to occur in our future, not during Noah's time or Lot's time.  

 

 

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How do you get pre trib rapture

Rev 7 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Are they not saved from Gods wrath? Have they not been justified to be saved?

/facepalm!

 

Israel doesn't get rapture. They (a remnant of Israel) get sealed. The rapture is for the church. Please post something intelligent.

 

 

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Oh really can you please show us all

LOL! SLAM DUNK EASY!

But first let me ask you this. If I had already posted answers to all those scriptures and you still can't see a pre-trib rapture in those scriptures, how will you understand me explaining the 75 days for you?

However, let's have a little fun. I'll give you the book and chapter to the answer and let you figure it out. The answer is hidden in Daniel 7 & 12 and Revelation 13.

Let me know if you find out, I'll be enjoying the popcorn till then.

 

Want the verses too? Nah, you're good to go!

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Psalms37:4