Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[garee]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Faith doesn't come from God.  Faith comes from the heart.  Rom 10:10

Hi I would offer. . 

Without believing (exercising faith ) as the power of God,  when God's will declared "let there be" without believing. . .  there would be no power to create substance rudiments of this world.  God's labor of love is a work of his faith 

It defends us when we defend it. You could say by putting on the armor of God  

Romans 3:1-4 King James Version What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[garee]

11 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I was speaking of Heb 9:28 which speaks of Jesus' coming again "a second time".  I don't know why you cite Heb 11:19, or 9:9 or mention of parables.

9:28 - so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

This is not a parable.  It tells us that when Jesus returns to earth, it will be "a second time".  That's the Second Advent.

And I don't see any relevance of this to the Second Advent.

Hebrews 9:28 is part of the 1st century reformation doctrine   it does not get cut off because you say its not a figure of the things not seen, a aparble 

If you think some how the Son of man Jesus our  brother in the Lord is going to be reincarnated as a second advent in a hope of revealing his dying flesh .I would be interested in how one comes to that tradition ?

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 King James Version  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The Spirit of God working in the created things  I would think  on the last day, he will leave like a thief in the night drawing up the saints that remained . 

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

 

[FreeGrace]

38 minutes ago, garee said:

FreeGrace said: 

Faith doesn't come from God.  Faith comes from the heart.  Rom 10:10

Hi I would offer. . 

Without believing (exercising faith ) as the power of God,  when God's will declared "let there be" without believing. . .  there would be no power to create substance rudiments of this world.  God's labor of love is a work of his faith

How does this relate to what I said?  You mentioned "faith from God" and I showed the verse that says our faith comes from our heart.

38 minutes ago, garee said:

It defends us when we defend it. You could say by putting on the armor of God  

Romans 3:1-4 King James Version What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

?

[transmogrified]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

John does not say everyone is rewarded at the 7th trumpet so no one was judged and rewarded before then. 

All the saints will come back with Jesus from heaven.. how do The OT saints and Trib saints get up to heaven because they are not included in the pre trib rapture. . Pre trib only has them resurrected at the end but there is no ascension so it is impossible for all the saints to come back according to pre trib… Zech and Paul said when the Lord returns all the saints will come with him.. It’s impossible for that to happen in a pre trib scenario

[FreeGrace]

16 minutes ago, garee said:

Hebrews 9:28 is part of the 1st century reformation doctrine

I'm sorry, but I just don't know what you are talking about?  All of the Bible comes from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  So why place origin on "1st century reformation doctrine?

btw, the "reformation" didn't occur until the 1600's.  Luther.  Ever hear of him?

So "1st century reformation doctrine" has no meaning for me.

16 minutes ago, garee said:

If you think some how the Son of man Jesus our  brother in the Lord is going to be reincarnated as a second advent in a hope of revealing his dying flesh .I would be interested in how one comes to that tradition ?

You seem rather confused.  But of course, all the "amill's" are confused.  Jesus isn't "our brother in the Lord".  He IS IS IS the Lord.  Read all of the NT and you'll see.

And what is this about "reincarnation"?  I never said anything about that.  Nor does the Bible, which is why I never did.  I'm discussing biblical concepts, not myths, etc.

16 minutes ago, garee said:

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 King James Version  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What do you think 'new creature' means?  Please explain.

16 minutes ago, garee said:

The Spirit of God working in the created things  I would think  on the last day, he will leave like a thief in the night drawing up the saints that remained .

The Bible doesn't speak of any of this.  Where do you get your material?

16 minutes ago, garee said:

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

And what do you think this is about?  Please explain.

hint:  it does no good to just quote some verses without any explanation.

I have no idea why you cite/quote the verses you do.  They are not relevant to what I've said.  So I need some explanation for WHY you cite/quote them.

Thanks.

[transmogrified]

Remember the only way pre trib saints can get up to heaven is via rapture.. just being resurrected is not enough.. The two prophets were resurrected but they did not ascend till the voice called them up.. same with the rapture.. all are changed at the same time but change does not mean caught up.. they are first changed then caught up.. but there is no catching up for OT or trib saints so they would not be in heaven to come down…It’s because anytime you put the only rapture sometime before the second coming someone will be left out unless you want to put another rapture after the trib but then you violate Paul even more and even pre trib claims there is no rapture for anyone after the trib… Pre trib is wrong .. all the saints can not return according to prettib

[garee]

16 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I'm sorry, but I just don't know what you are talking about?  All of the Bible comes from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  So why place origin on "1st century reformation doctrine?

btw, the "reformation" didn't occur until the 1600's.  Luther.  Ever hear of him?

So "1st century reformation doctrine" has no meaning for me.

Coming from the inspirational parables used as a shadow?

It would seem you simply are not interested in looking at the signified understanding using the temporal seen as sign to be used in a comparison parables 

Parables. . one purpose to "teach us how"  to walk by the faith that comes from hearing the voice of scriptures  . two levels needed to mixed . No mix no gospel rest the historically literal and the spiritual understanding .they must be mixed if we desire the sabbath rest  (Hebrew 4:1-2)  remember satin the counterfeiter would call it all one in the same  .No need to dig and find the pearls 

Parable God's poetic tongue are prophecy  by them he sings songs  

Psalm 100:2

Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

 

[garee]

34 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I'm sorry, but I just don't know what you are talking about?  All of the Bible comes from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  So why place origin on "1st century reformation doctrine?

btw, the "reformation" didn't occur until the 1600's.  Luther.  Ever hear of him?

So "1st century reformation doctrine" has no meaning for me.

You seem rather confused.  But of course, all the "amill's" are confused.  Jesus isn't "our brother in the Lord".  He IS IS IS the Lord.  Read all of the NT and you'll see.

And what is this about "reincarnation"?  I never said anything about that.  Nor does the Bible, which is why I never did.  I'm discussing biblical concepts, not myths, etc.

What do you think 'new creature' means?  Please explain.

The Bible doesn't speak of any of this.  Where do you get your material?

And what do you think this is about?  Please explain.

hint:  it does no good to just quote some verses without any explanation.

I have no idea why you cite/quote the verses you do.  They are not relevant to what I've said.  So I need some explanation for WHY you cite/quote them.

Thanks.

it was posted right above . Jesus our brother in the Lord same one that said call no man on earth Father one is his Father in heaven the same is his brother or sister  .Read slower perhaps 

God is not a man 

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

[FreeGrace]

28 minutes ago, garee said:

Coming from the inspirational parables used as a shadow?

Still don't know what you are talking about.  Can't figure out what your question is.

28 minutes ago, garee said:

It would seem you simply are not interested in looking at the signified understanding using the temporal seen as sign to be used in a comparison parable

OK, what does "the signified understanding" mean?  And "using the temporal seen as sign", huh?  Please use conversational language which I can follow easily.  What you are posting I cannot follow.

28 minutes ago, garee said:

Parables. . one purpose to "teach us how"  to walk by the faith that comes from hearing the voice of scriptures  . two levels needed to mixed .

Where do you get "2 levels"?  Explain them.  And use Scripture.

28 minutes ago, garee said:

No mix no gospel rest the historically literal and the spiritual understanding .

This is not a sentence.  I don't know what it is.  Please what you type before you submit.

28 minutes ago, garee said:

they must be mixed if we desire the sabbath rest  (Hebrew 4:1-2)

The Sabbath rest of Hebrews is eternal reward.

28 minutes ago, garee said:

Parable God's poetic tongue are prophecy  by them he sings songs  

Another string of words that do not make up a sentence.

[FreeGrace]

26 minutes ago, garee said:

it was posted right above .

Your posts are not making sense.  

26 minutes ago, garee said:

Jesus our brother in the Lord same one that said call no man on earth Father one is his Father in heaven the same is his brother or sister

I've already explained that Jesus is NOT anyone's brother in the Lord.  Jesus IS IS IS the Lord.  Are you not able to understand this?

26 minutes ago, garee said:

  .Read slower perhaps

Maybe you could type slower, and then read what you type before you post.

26 minutes ago, garee said:

God is not a man

Jesus is fully God and fully man.  What kind of theology does your ideas come from?

26 minutes ago, garee said: