Conversation with those who believe Christ has NOT returned (2nd Advent) and will NOT be coming pre trib (rapture)

[luigi]

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Luigi,

This seems to have accounted for those who 'slept' in Christ returning with Him and those who are alive being caught up to Him which seemingly takes care of all believers.  

So my question for you is what happens to those who took the 'mark of the beast' when Christ returns?  And, if the 'dead' in Christ rise, then what happens to the 'dead' NOT in Christ?  

 

 

 

 

When Christ returns at the conclusion of the beasts 42 month reign is when the Lord returns with all have been asleep in Him. This is when Jesus rewards all on the earth who believe in Him, both small and great (who have not taken the mark of the beast), while at the same time the Lords wrath commences the destruction of those who have been destroying the earth under the beasts reign (Revelation 11:18). Revelation 12 which ends with the dragon providing the beast with his power, causing the beasts ascension from the sea in Revelation 13, is in retrospect to the beasts ascension in Revelation 11:7.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[luigi]

58 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But skipping all that, the 'interval' you speak of, I personally haven't been given any info but I AM looking forward to it because I have been curious.  If you have any scriptures you feel speak to this 'interval',  I would be very interested to see them.  'the coming to the 1335 day' seems to be a statement of such.  I must admit I never taken the time to study those happenings because come that point in time (or ending of time), all lines have been drawn and where we go, how we get there, and all the rest will be dictated by 'and our works do follow us'.  But still if you have been given something by all means please share....

 

 

 

Knowing that those who sleep in Christ are taken up prior to when those who are still alive on the earth are caught up, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; we can then deduce that there is a time interval between those who sleep in Christ being caught up and those who are still alive on the earth when Christ returns with those have been asleep in Him having been caught up.

Likewise, in Revelation 12 we see a man child who is born to a travailing woman, who is caught up to God and His throne, which is at near the beginning of the 42 month tribulation/travailing period. Once this being caught up takes place, war develops in heaven, upon which the devil and his angels are cast out unto the earth. The devil then wages war upon the woman and her remnant surviving offspring during this 42 month period. As such, the man child who is caught up in Revelation 12:5 would seem to me to correlate with those have fallen asleep in Christ, prior to Christs return and commencing to reign at the conclusion of the beasts 42 month reign, whereas the remnant surviving offspring of the woman with whom Satan makes war with, but who are still alive in their skins at the conclusion of the 42 month reign of the beast, represent those who are caught up when the Lord returns.

While some see the man child who is caught up to God and His throne in Revelation 12:5 as Jesus; in Revelation 4:1 the Lord calls John to heaven to show him events which must be hereafter, thereby indicating events in chapters 4-22, including the man child in Revelation 12 as not a recounting historical event of Jesus' ascension, but is instead a future prophesy.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Edited July 17, 2021 by luigi

[Charlie744]

17 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Okay, Charlie.  Here’s a bit on Daniel 2:34-35

Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the four great world empires, (1st. Babylonian, 2nd. Medio-Persiain, 3rd. Grecian and 4th. Roman) all of which Daniel prophesied would fall, (they have, they are history) followed by a fifth world empire, the Stone Kingdom (still future).

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest untill a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. 

Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that he saw a stone cut out without hands smite the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and break them to pieces. That Stone is Jesus Christ, the Rock of our salvation, the Stone of Israel as He is called in Gen. 49:24. He is the stone which the builders rejected and He shall now be the head stone of the corner over all the earth.  Jesus Christ is the Rock, the only true foundation upon which we stand. The image that Nebuchadnezzar saw had a very weak foundation of iron mixed with clay (a prophecy  of the Beast), and it won’t be long before it comes crashing down!

This is a test only... I have been trying to send my response to this and send messages on my PC... can not do it.. let’s see if IPhone sends

Charlie

[Charlie744]

42 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

This is a test only... I have been trying to send my response to this and send messages on my PC... can not do it.. let’s see if IPhone sends

Charlie

Ok, have seen my “test” response and it was sent and seen on my PC and IPHONE...

Went back onto PC to try and send my response to Selah.... would not move off the “saving” message after I hit submit...

Can anyone help me resolve this... I have been using my PC - Windows 7 for some time now without issue.

 Thank you, Charlie 

[Selah7]

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok, have seen my “test” response and it was sent and seen on my PC and IPHONE...

Went back onto PC to try and send my response to Selah.... would not move off the “saving” message after I hit submit...

Can anyone help me resolve this... I have been using my PC - Windows 7 for some time now without issue.

 Thank you, Charlie 

This past week, I’ve been having some trouble saving, too.  It doesn’t happen every single time, though. ???

[Charlie744]

18 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Okay, Charlie.  Here’s a bit on Daniel 2:34-35

Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the four great world empires, (1st. Babylonian, 2nd. Medio-Persiain, 3rd. Grecian and 4th. Roman) all of which Daniel prophesied would fall, (they have, they are history) followed by a fifth world empire, the Stone Kingdom (still future).

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest untill a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. 

Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that he saw a stone cut out without hands smite the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and break them to pieces. That Stone is Jesus Christ, the Rock of our salvation, the Stone of Israel as He is called in Gen. 49:24. He is the stone which the builders rejected and He shall now be the head stone of the corner over all the earth.  Jesus Christ is the Rock, the only true foundation upon which we stand. The image that Nebuchadnezzar saw had a very weak foundation of iron mixed with clay (a prophecy  of the Beast), and it won’t be long before it comes crashing down!

Well, you get NO argument from me on your thoughts! I don't count there are five kingdoms ONLY because I define. rightly or wrongly, that there are only four gentile kingdoms.... only four separate body parts revealed by God to Daniel. There is no doubt the final kingdom will be the one ruled by Jesus but that is not an earthly kingdom - as we understand it.

I am sure you are well aware of this verse in Matthew and there is one in Psalms:

 

Psalms 118:22 tells us the stone which the builders rejected has become the Chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord’s doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.

 

Matthew 21: ⁴² Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘the stone which the builders rejected has become the Chief Cornerstone. This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

⁴³“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. ⁴⁴ And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

⁴⁵Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 

 

Above we can clearly see the connection in Daniel vv.34 -35 to Mathew 44. Indeed, the Jews who denied the Messiah would stumble and fall and be broken into pieces, but those Jews and Gentiles will be grinded into powder at His second coming should they refuse to accept His sacrifice.

Consequently, the "Stone" does strike the feet to "divide" and not to destroy while the "grinding into powder" can only come at His second coming.  Then, the Mountain will fall on all those who rejected Jesus.... total destruction to be found no more but that could not possibly have taken place at His first coming.... that was meant to "divide" the ceramic clay from  the potter's clay - from the time of the Cross to His second coming.

Hope this might makes some sense to you.... it does to me, Charlie

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Selah7 said:

This past week, I’ve been having some trouble saving, too.  It doesn’t happen every single time, though. ???

Thank you.... I just went into my settings and changed my password... and have just sent you my response successfully... no idea what is going on in that black box... Charlie

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Well, you get NO argument from me on your thoughts! I don't count there are five kingdoms ONLY because I define. rightly or wrongly, that there are only four gentile kingdoms.... only four separate body parts revealed by God to Daniel. There is no doubt the final kingdom will be the one ruled by Jesus but that is not an earthly kingdom - as we understand it.

I am sure you are well aware of this verse in Matthew and there is one in Psalms:

 

Psalms 118:22 tells us the stone which the builders rejected has become the Chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord’s doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.

 

Matthew 21: ⁴² Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘the stone which the builders rejected has become the Chief Cornerstone. This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

⁴³“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. ⁴⁴ And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

⁴⁵Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 

 

Above we can clearly see the connection in Daniel vv.34 -35 to Mathew 44. Indeed, the Jews who denied the Messiah would stumble and fall and be broken into pieces, but those Jews and Gentiles will be grinded into powder at His second coming should they refuse to accept His sacrifice.

Consequently, the "Stone" does strike the feet to "divide" and not to destroy while the "grinding into powder" can only come at His second coming.  Then, the Mountain will fall on all those who rejected Jesus.... total destruction to be found no more but that could not possibly have taken place at His first coming.... that was meant to "divide" the ceramic clay from  the potter's clay - from the time of the Cross to His second coming.

Hope this might makes some sense to you.... it does to me, Charlie

Yes, Charlie.  The Stone Kingdom is yet future—at the second advent when Jesus Christ, our King, returns. 

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Selah7

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

When Christ returns at the conclusion of the beasts 42 month reign is when the Lord returns with all have been asleep in Him. This is when Jesus rewards all on the earth who believe in Him, both small and great (who have not taken the mark of the beast), while at the same time the Lords wrath commences the destruction of those who have been destroying the earth under the beasts reign (Revelation 11:18). Revelation 12 which ends with the dragon providing the beast with his power, causing the beasts ascension from the sea in Revelation 13, is in retrospect to the beasts ascension in Revelation 11:7.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Hi Luigi,  

It isn't your explanation, it what scripture got you there.  Could you please tell me that same thing only uses Gods words or verses put together that tell that story so that I might follow how you were lead that way? 

I am GOOD I would say up until 

Revelation 12 which ends with the dragon providing the beast with his power, causing the beasts ascension from the sea in Revelation 13, is in retrospect to the beasts ascension in Revelation 11:7.


And when you get to PLEASE PUT IN YOUR WORDS INPLACE OF MINE SO I CAN FOLLOW YOUR PATH.  I PUT MINE IN SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY I DON'T YOURS.  

 

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

THE BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY/MILLENNIUM/1000 YEARS

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

I UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE AT THE END OF THE LORDS DAY WHEN THE FINAL BATTLE BEFORE THE LAKE OF FIRE IS TO TAKE PLACE

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

THAT IS THE LAKE OF FIRE

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

THAT IS THE WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT COMING DOWN TO EARTH TO ACCOMPLISH THAT STUFF. 


THANK YOU AGAIN....D

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

nowing that those who sleep in Christ are taken up prior to when those who are still alive on the earth are caught up, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; we can then deduce that there is a time interval between those who sleep in Christ being caught up and those who are still alive on the earth when Christ returns with those have been asleep in Him having been caught up.

Hi again, 

I have to tell you,  I believe that the moment this flesh body dies, the REAL WE,  our spirit/soul/and now celestial body go IMMEDIATELY to paradise.  

Jesus said to the thief TODAY you will.....

That is not a 'today' that comes over 2000 years later.  

And all those WHO have been born and have died over the past 2000 plus years have have gone back to God.  

 and that is the simple reason they return.  That is all Pauls writings tell us there. 

Scriptures that lead this way

 

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

DOESN'T SAY 'WHEN HEAVEN WILL COME TO EARTH' HOPE FOR THAT day, NO, HOPe FOR WHAT IS LAID UP IN HEAVEN NOW, THAT MANSION, THAT PLACE WHERE CHRIST IS, THAT PLACE WE GO SO THAT WE MAY BE WHERE HE IS AND NOT SLEEPING/dead IN A HOLE IN THE GROUND.



DO THE HEATHEN THINK THAT DEATH IS DYING AND BEING BURIED IN A GRAVE?  YES, THEY DO.  BUT WE ARE NOT TO THINK LIKE THAT.  
 

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

SHALL NEVER SLEEP/DIE.  

BELIEVEST THOU THIS???????

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life;

and I will raise him up at the last day.

My dads last day came 6 years ago.  My husbands 4.  I don't know when or even IF I will have one,  but I do know that on the last day whether it be the last day for just me and however many others

or if that last day will be the day Christ returns and I am changed, that I SHALL NEVER DIE/SLEEP. IF THAT day comes before the last day of this age of ages, I know I will be up in paradise talking to someone with a similar story to this mans

 

Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

John was talking with an angel who was already risen who tells John I AM OF THY BREATHREN THE PROPHETS AND THEM WHICH KEEP THE SAYINGS OF THIS BOOK.  THAT WAS OVER 2OOO YEARS AGO.  

There are so many more verses that tell us SATAN DID NOT GET TO KEEP CONTROL OVER 'THE DEAD' ONCE CHRIST BECAME ONE OF THEM.  HE HANDED THOSE KEYS OVER FOR EVER.  Oh, if only he could have read with understanding.  I say that because then THE LAST DAY for all would have taken place back then but what would have happened to the sins of the world?  IDK.  

THESE are the truths that set us free and bring us peace and help us recognize the power of the Lord.  We not only receive blessings LATER, they are all around us every day while we walk in this flesh.  Want more??  Start giving thanks for all the ones you experience right now.  You will be very surprised at the peace and joy to be found even in what may seem like the most perilous of times.  

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

D