Conversation with those who believe Christ has NOT returned (2nd Advent) and will NOT be coming pre trib (rapture)

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Hi DeighAnn, I just was reading a few responses between you and Luigi and noticed the above reply from you ..... I just wanted to select two comments you included in the above and wanted to ask you about... or any one ...

 

 

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

 

First, just using the above 4  verses (and there are so many more that speak to this subject in the Scriptures), you interpret Luke 43 that there is a comma before the two words "To day"....... Now we both know there are no such marks in the Tanach so what if the comma WERE to be placed AFTER "To day"?  Jesus would be telling the thief that He is telling him today.... he will be with Him in paradise?

And even without considering all the other "sleep" verses in the Scriptures, if we just look at the 3 verses in John above it might / should be telling us that Jesus is going somewhere to build places for us and will come back again to take us with Him there..... In other words, at the time of death we are NOT taken to Him but are still asleep until He comes back...

 

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

 

Hi Charlie, Today I reply, 

WHY would the Lord need to tell the thief he was talking to him 'today'?  If you told me before I am sorry I forgot and once again can't figure it out.  BUT anyway,


THIS man on the cross next to the Lord, HAD JUST COME TO FAITH.  HIS sins had just been forgiven him.   He had just been washed clean. And just like the parable told us  "It was the very end of the day and just like the man that started very early that day and received a penny for the whole day, HE received a  penny also".  

 DO you believe that  CHRISTs death and resurrection WAS more powerful than Adams sin?  

I think it is you more than almost anyone else who should have no trouble with this. 
BY ONE SIN (death) came. 

REMEMBER ADAMS STATE BEFORE SIN?  Wasn't it You who pointed out to me Adam was created immortal?

Doesn't the infinite value of the Blood shed for our guilt/repentance, remands us back to that state?   Now ask yourself.  WHY would God create us for HIS pleasure DIE for our sins and THEN put us to sleep WHEN there is a KINGDOM IN HEAVEN and Christ told us HE was going to prepare a place for us that where he is we may be also.  He isn't stuck in some hole in the ground.   
Thrones and creatures, billions of brethren angels worshipping GOD, Christ at His right hand, a gulf so the sottish can see what they are missing and ponder upon what they would do if perhaps they were shaken from heaven and got a REAL CHANCE at salvation say during the Lords Day.  I am sure there is  enough room for all souls.  AND why would we get a 'celestial' body if we weren't going celestial??    

GOD WANTS TO BE OUR KING.  Wants us to WANT HIM to be our KING.  Do you remember when He was first rejected??  They didn't want Him because they said they wanted 'an earthly king'.  HOW STUPID we are.   He tried to warn us. We wouldn't listen.  

Do you remember the second time He came to be our KING?  THEY WANTED FLESH and  He came in the flesh.  
HE WAS REJECTED AGAIN.  It isn't God who doesn't want us.  He created us. The whole host of us.   We lived with him before there was an earth.  We lived with Him through when  he had to destroy that earth (Satan not only really hurt Him but made Him really mad.  I think that is why He has to swear and make promises but that is way off the books and so absolutely just an opinion)

So I could be way wrong and that was just a whole different set of 'sons of God' that He just destroyed and started over and here we are hoping no one makes Him mad this time and the next 'in the beginning' is about a whole new group of 'sons of God' but EITHER WAY... back to the thief...


They are DYING. 

You know how long generally it took to die when crucified?  

More than a day.  

It wasn't the day that was important, it was where they were going.  Eternal life doesn't sleep/die.  It may pass through it, but it can't hold us any longer.  

Maybe a tad bit more than you were asking about but I'm sure you are getting used to it by now, at least I am going to pray for that in any case.....  I smile and thank you D
 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

The scriptures I used to explain the dead in Christ not yet having been raised with Christ presently is Revelation 6:9-11, where those who have died for their faith in Christ are currently under the alter. I presented this to you in an earlier post.

And yes, those who have died for their testimony in Christ who are presently under the alter in Revelation 6:9-11 will be resurrected with their brethren who are to be killed as they have been, who shall all return with Christ.

Let's just lay that to rest.  You have your ideas about Adams sin still reigning past Christ's death and resurrection, I have Christ's death and resurrection being more powerful than Adams sin and loosing the bonds of death.  Correct?

Now that we know about all the 'good guys' and where we stand.  PLEASE  understand my next approach. Reason,  My mother was born in a foreign country (foreign to mine).  Sometimes when communicating with her I need to get very ???   blunt as I have found that many times it is THE ONLY WAY in which she can grasp something that no other avenue affords us.  Hence all the capitols.  I am not yelling just trying to isolate.  Also please note, I myself can NOT speak more than one language, my Mother can speak at least two.  Just so we know where I stand and that is at -1.  

question.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST WHEN CHRIST RETURNS

AND

WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO DIED NEVER COMING TO FAITH WHEN CHRIST RETURNS?

And if you so feel led, what is the DIFFERENCE in DEATH, for anyone (if you believe there is any)   from before the Lamb Sacrifice and after?

Thank you Luigi....Prayers for you and blessings to you   D

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Charlie, Today I reply, 

WHY would the Lord need to tell the thief he was talking to him 'today'?  If you told me before I am sorry I forgot and once again can't figure it out.  BUT anyway,


THIS man on the cross next to the Lord, HAD JUST COME TO FAITH.  HIS sins had just been forgiven him.   He had just been washed clean. And just like the parable told us  "It was the very end of the day and just like the man that started very early that day and received a penny for the whole day, HE received a  penny also".  

 DO you believe that  CHRISTs death and resurrection WAS more powerful than Adams sin?  

I think it is you more than almost anyone else who should have no trouble with this. 
BY ONE SIN (death) came. 

REMEMBER ADAMS STATE BEFORE SIN?  Wasn't it You who pointed out to me Adam was created immortal?

Doesn't the infinite value of the Blood shed for our guilt/repentance, remands us back to that state?   Now ask yourself.  WHY would God create us for HIS pleasure DIE for our sins and THEN put us to sleep WHEN there is a KINGDOM IN HEAVEN and Christ told us HE was going to prepare a place for us that where he is we may be also.  He isn't stuck in some hole in the ground.   
Thrones and creatures, billions of brethren angels worshipping GOD, Christ at His right hand, a gulf so the sottish can see what they are missing and ponder upon what they would do if perhaps they were shaken from heaven and got a REAL CHANCE at salvation say during the Lords Day.  I am sure there is  enough room for all souls.  AND why would we get a 'celestial' body if we weren't going celestial??    

GOD WANTS TO BE OUR KING.  Wants us to WANT HIM to be our KING.  Do you remember when He was first rejected??  They didn't want Him because they said they wanted 'an earthly king'.  HOW STUPID we are.   He tried to warn us. We wouldn't listen.  

Do you remember the second time He came to be our KING?  THEY WANTED FLESH and  He came in the flesh.  
HE WAS REJECTED AGAIN.  It isn't God who doesn't want us.  He created us. The whole host of us.   We lived with him before there was an earth.  We lived with Him through when  he had to destroy that earth (Satan not only really hurt Him but made Him really mad.  I think that is why He has to swear and make promises but that is way off the books and so absolutely just an opinion)

So I could be way wrong and that was just a whole different set of 'sons of God' that He just destroyed and started over and here we are hoping no one makes Him mad this time and the next 'in the beginning' is about a whole new group of 'sons of God' but EITHER WAY... back to the thief...


They are DYING. 

You know how long generally it took to die when crucified?  

More than a day.  

It wasn't the day that was important, it was where they were going.  Eternal life doesn't sleep/die.  It may pass through it, but it can't hold us any longer.  

Maybe a tad bit more than you were asking about but I'm sure you are getting used to it by now, at least I am going to pray for that in any case.....  I smile and thank you D
 

Thanks DeighAnn, remember Jesus died and rested in the grave on the following day - the Sabbath. Remember also, He rose from the dead on the first day - Sunday and specifically instructed Mary NOT to touch Him - because He had not yet gone to the Father.

Jesus was telling the thief that TODAY I AM MAKING THE DECLARATION TO YOU that you will be with me in paradise...;. Why did He tell him and use the word "Today"? Is it because Jesus would be in heaven that same day? NO ... He would be in the grave that day.... but He wanted all of US to realize that the ONLY reason this thief and not the other one would be with Him in heaven is because this thief demonstrated TRUE FAITH IN HIM.  Jesus wanted all of us to understand the thief HAD NO TOMORROWS  - he would soon be dead and therefore Jesus was telling him he had NO other good deeds or acts of kindness or any other WORKS he would have to do BUT BELIEVE HE WAS THE MESSIAH. 

The thief could not possibly get to heaven any other way... he would be dead soon, but what he needed and want WE NEED is FAITH IN JESUS PLUS NOTHING ELSE.

I hope that makes sense to you.... the RCC placed the "comma" before the word "today" for a very specific reason: they believe it takes faith PLUS works.... 

Look forward to hearing back from you soon on this.... best wishes always, Charlie

[Justin Adams]

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks DeighAnn, remember Jesus died and rested in the grave on the following day - the Sabbath. Remember also, He rose from the dead on the first day - Sunday and specifically instructed Mary NOT to touch Him - because He had not yet gone to the Father.

Jesus was telling the thief that TODAY I AM MAKING THE DECLARATION TO YOU that you will be with me in paradise...;. Why did He tell him and use the word "Today"? Is it because Jesus would be in heaven that same day? NO ... He would be in the grave that day.... but He wanted all of US to realize that the ONLY reason this thief and not the other one would be with Him in heaven is because this thief demonstrated TRUE FAITH IN HIM.  Jesus wanted all of us to understand the thief HAD NO TOMORROWS  - he would soon be dead and therefore Jesus was telling him he had NO other good deeds or acts of kindness or any other WORKS he would have to do BUT BELIEVE HE WAS THE MESSIAH. 

The thief could not possibly get to heaven any other way... he would be dead soon, but what he needed and want WE NEED is FAITH IN JESUS PLUS NOTHING ELSE.

I hope that makes sense to you.... the RCC placed the "comma" before the word "today" for a very specific reason: they believe it takes faith PLUS works.... 

Look forward to hearing back from you soon on this.... best wishes always, Charlie

Hi Charlie, 

Thank you for response.  Since we will obviously be meeting EITHER in heaven (I'LL SEE if I can meet you at the gates, who knows doesn't hurt to ask)  or on earth on what I would assume would be the most confusing time in all the history of the universe 'at the last day' when apparently 14 billion souls will all awake without a clue as to what is going on while near 7 billion drop dead and rise and the rest wait to be changed and in that case hopefully we will run into each other sometime before the end of the millennium.  Who knows?  (I am probably way off and haven't given it much thought so maybe you could tell me how that all is supposed to take place) and it may take me the whole millennium to finally find you, just knowing we will meet is enough for now. 
 

THE FLESH of JESUS lay, NOT Jesus.  Jesus went to all those who HAD died before Him and His finished work as Saviour, to offer unto them the same salvation offered us.  He lead away the captives.  They were captive no more.  


Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

Matthew 22:27 And last of all the woman died also.

Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

aka God is not the God of the sleeping/dead BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING.  


 

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

1 Peter 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust,
THAT HE MIGHT BRING US TO GOD,
being put to DEATH IN THE FLESH,
but quickened by the Spirit

(AGAIN, Not coming back TO us but FOR us so that he can BRING US TO GOD, to that mansion that He told us about, to that place he prepared for us, for us to follow Him, so that we can come back with Him)
 

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

WHERE IS HE RIGHT NOW?  FOR THE LAST 2000 YEARS?  HAVE THEY OR HAVE THEY NOT FOLLOWED HIM AND GONE TO BE WHERE HE IS OR THEY RIGHT NOW ASLEEP/DEAD IN A GRAVE WAITING TO 'COME BACK TO LIFE'? 


DEATH is of THIS WORLD.  WE accepting Christ don't remain of  this world. We DIED and were raised a NEW CREATURE ALREADY.  

 

John 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


I keep trying to 'fit' that today statement but SUCH a simple reply so easy to understand just NOT MEANING that... those are the kinds of things I find really hard to do.  

Cause it all comes down to this:  Jesus said TODAY you will be with me in paradise.  Declaration or not if TODAY the thief wasn't in paradise,  would that not make what Jesus said into a lie? 

Today I am going to feed you ACTUALLY  means 'someday' you will get to eat
Today I am going to the store actually means someday I am going shopping
Today I will teach you to drive means someday I will get to it

I can't find another way in which it works and MAYBE I possibly could but that doesn't change the fact that is FEELS ALL WRONG.  And it goes against what I read and believe.  I the price of sin DEATH has been paid, SO WHY MUST I SLEEP? 

If there is indeed a last day when all who were once alive come back to life at the same time...I don't even know where to start with my questions.  

Gotta take mom shopping talk soon  D

[Charlie744]

23 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Charlie, 

Thank you for response.  Since we will obviously be meeting EITHER in heaven (I'LL SEE if I can meet you at the gates, who knows doesn't hurt to ask)  or on earth on what I would assume would be the most confusing time in all the history of the universe 'at the last day' when apparently 14 billion souls will all awake without a clue as to what is going on while near 7 billion drop dead and rise and the rest wait to be changed and in that case hopefully we will run into each other sometime before the end of the millennium.  Who knows?  (I am probably way off and haven't given it much thought so maybe you could tell me how that all is supposed to take place) and it may take me the whole millennium to finally find you, just knowing we will meet is enough for now. 
 

THE FLESH of JESUS lay, NOT Jesus.  Jesus went to all those who HAD died before Him and His finished work as Saviour, to offer unto them the same salvation offered us.  He lead away the captives.  They were captive no more.  


Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

Matthew 22:27 And last of all the woman died also.

Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

aka God is not the God of the sleeping/dead BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING.  


 

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

1 Peter 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust,
THAT HE MIGHT BRING US TO GOD,
being put to DEATH IN THE FLESH,
but quickened by the Spirit

(AGAIN, Not coming back TO us but FOR us so that he can BRING US TO GOD, to that mansion that He told us about, to that place he prepared for us, for us to follow Him, so that we can come back with Him)
 

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

WHERE IS HE RIGHT NOW?  FOR THE LAST 2000 YEARS?  HAVE THEY OR HAVE THEY NOT FOLLOWED HIM AND GONE TO BE WHERE HE IS OR THEY RIGHT NOW ASLEEP/DEAD IN A GRAVE WAITING TO 'COME BACK TO LIFE'? 


DEATH is of THIS WORLD.  WE accepting Christ don't remain of  this world. We DIED and were raised a NEW CREATURE ALREADY.  

 

John 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


I keep trying to 'fit' that today statement but SUCH a simple reply so easy to understand just NOT MEANING that... those are the kinds of things I find really hard to do.  

Cause it all comes down to this:  Jesus said TODAY you will be with me in paradise.  Declaration or not if TODAY the thief wasn't in paradise,  would that not make what Jesus said into a lie? 

Today I am going to feed you ACTUALLY  means 'someday' you will get to eat
Today I am going to the store actually means someday I am going shopping
Today I will teach you to drive means someday I will get to it

I can't find another way in which it works and MAYBE I possibly could but that doesn't change the fact that is FEELS ALL WRONG.  And it goes against what I read and believe.  I the price of sin DEATH has been paid, SO WHY MUST I SLEEP? 

If there is indeed a last day when all who were once alive come back to life at the same time...I don't even know where to start with my questions.  

Gotta take mom shopping talk soon  D

Thanks DeighAnn!

 I am not sure my response was accepted ????

Not that you have to accept my view or interpretation on either how and why the word “today” is meant to be understood..

Can you tell me your thoughts on how you received my answer? Was it clear enough? Or was it off ? 

Do you still think Jesus Himself was in paradise that same day?

 Thanks, Charlie 

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks DeighAnn!

 I am not sure my response was accepted ????

Not that you have to accept my view or interpretation on either how and why the word “today” is meant to be understood..

Can you tell me your thoughts on how you received my answer? Was it clear enough? Or was it off ? 

Do you still think Jesus Himself was in paradise that same day?

 Thanks, Charlie 

Hi Charlie,  
I accept your view is working for you right now. 

 but if you ask 100 children (not giving any explanation) how many would say  'it was a declaration' of something to happen in the future.  

Why did He tell him and use the word "Today"? Is it because Jesus would be in heaven that same day? NO ... He would be in the grave that day....
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

 He yielded up the spirit to THE FATHER not to the grave, correct?  
aka to be absent from the body....

No,  I BELIEVE THE LORD DID NOT GO INTO THE GRAVE THAT DAY, Just His flesh.


 Where did the the flesh go?  

Luke 23:51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.

Luke 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

Luke 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

" but He wanted all of US to realize that the ONLY reason this thief and not the other one would be with Him in heaven is because this thief demonstrated TRUE FAITH IN HIM".

SO WHY NOT just say something along those lines?  Something like  'BECAUSE OF THIS THIEFS FAITH, SALVATION IS COME UPON HIM TODAY'

LET'S go the other way, IF Jesus WAS in fact, trying to tell us that the thief would be with Him in heaven 'today', 

HOW WOULD HE HAVE SAID that? 



 Jesus wanted all of us to understand the thief HAD NO TOMORROWS  - he would soon be dead and therefore Jesus was telling him he had NO other good deeds or acts of kindness or any other WORKS he would have to do BUT BELIEVE HE WAS THE MESSIAH.  

How does saying he would be in heaven with Him TODAY (as in within the next couple hours)  NOT SAY THAT SAME THING?


If I have still missed the mark and not given the kind of answer you are looking for please ask me in a different way so that I share with you what I am not sharing now.  

OK. let's do this... D
 

[luigi]

On 7/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

Let's just lay that to rest.  You have your ideas about Adams sin still reigning past Christ's death and resurrection, I have Christ's death and resurrection being more powerful than Adams sin and loosing the bonds of death.  Correct?

Now that we know about all the 'good guys' and where we stand.  PLEASE  understand my next approach. Reason,  My mother was born in a foreign country (foreign to mine).  Sometimes when communicating with her I need to get very ???   blunt as I have found that many times it is THE ONLY WAY in which she can grasp something that no other avenue affords us.  Hence all the capitols.  I am not yelling just trying to isolate.  Also please note, I myself can NOT speak more than one language, my Mother can speak at least two.  Just so we know where I stand and that is at -1.  

question.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST WHEN CHRIST RETURNS

AND

WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO DIED NEVER COMING TO FAITH WHEN CHRIST RETURNS?

And if you so feel led, what is the DIFFERENCE in DEATH, for anyone (if you believe there is any)   from before the Lamb Sacrifice and after?

Thank you Luigi....Prayers for you and blessings to you   D

My mother also came from a foreign country.

As to your question about what happens to those  who have taken the mark of the beast; according to Revelation 11:18 they are complicit with those who have been destroying the earth, and so they will receive their due punishment.

About those who died never coming to faith when Christ returns. As you have stated that your faith differs somewhat from the main consensus, so too does my faith in Christ differ from the majority perspective. In Luke 10, the Lord provides us an example of a priest, a rabbi, and a Samaritan. When the priest and the rabbi, both of whom supposedly know God and his will, came upon one of their fellow brethren who had been robbed and left half dead by the side of the road, they both went to the other side of the road, and rendered no assistance. When the Samaritan came upon the injured Judean (who was in general regarded as enemy to Samaritans), had compassion on his neighbor, and tended to his wounds.

The Samaritan, who by definition was a heathen, had in fact faith in God who is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), while the priest and the rabbi who supposedly believed in God had no faith/belief in love for their neighbor.

So to answer your question; the Samaritan who was supposedly a heathen without faith in God will be among the sheep in Gods kingdom, while the priest and the rabbi will be among the goats cast outside of Gods kingdom (Matthew 25:31-46).

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, luigi said:

My mother also came from a foreign country.

As to your question about what happens to those  who have taken the mark of the beast; according to Revelation 11:18 they are complicit with those who have been destroying the earth, and so they will receive their due punishment.

About those who died never coming to faith when Christ returns. As you have stated that your faith differs somewhat from the main consensus, so too does my faith in Christ differ from the majority perspective. In Luke 10, the Lord provides us an example of a priest, a rabbi, and a Samaritan. When the priest and the rabbi, both of whom supposedly know God and his will, came upon one of their fellow brethren who had been robbed and left half dead by the side of the road, they both went to the other side of the road, and rendered no assistance. When the Samaritan came upon the injured Judean (who was in general regarded as enemy to Samaritans), had compassion on his neighbor, and tended to his wounds.

The Samaritan, who by definition was a heathen, had in fact faith in God who is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), while the priest and the rabbi who supposedly believed in God had no faith/belief in love for their neighbor.

So to answer your question; the Samaritan who was supposedly a heathen without faith in God will be among the sheep in Gods kingdom, while the priest and the rabbi will be among the goats cast outside of Gods kingdom (Matthew 25:31-46).

Hi Luigi,

I am going to have to go back and study and pray and ponder a bit before I respond.  I didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post but don't want to just shoot from the hip so to speak.  Thank you for sharing.  It's hard to be in the minority sometimes but as the spirit leads.....  D

[luigi]

Hi DeighAnn, 

I haven't been thinking you were ignoring me. Peace to you, until we speak again.