The NKJV

[RGR]

Brandplucked--

In your opinion is this a true statement?

"God's Word is preserved for us in the King James Bible and although not inspired as the original autographs were, they carry the authority of the original autographs. We can also refer to it as "imputed or derivative inspiration" since the King James Bible carries as much authority as the original manuscripts did. Let me repeat, the difference between preservation and inspiration is, inspiration was when God penned the original manuscripts through the holy men of old and preservation is the keeping of those manuscripts down through time. I hope this clears up the misconception of an "Inspired Translation." The King James Bible is a guided translation of the manuscripts handed down to us which had its birth in the original manuscripts which God gave with appended Divine authority"

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Pretzel,

Good deal! Ya know, I've oft wondered why those who are so strictly KJV don't quote from the ORIGINAL KJV that is SOOOOO difficult to read! Today's KJV is a revision of the original KJV for cyring out loud!

I've also wondered why those who are so strictly KJV don't emphasize reading Tyndale, Geneva, and other pre-KJV Bibles. Are they not "inspired?" Did we lose God's true words until 1611?

[yomotalking]

I have a question.....

If they Bible itself was written by fallible men, then would there be some mistakes?

If this was so, then we would never know what God wanted, would we?

[pretzelperson]

I have a question.....

If they Bible itself was written by

Edited September 29, 2005 by pretzelperson

[Guest shiloh357]

The original language manuscripts have various differences, proving that there are errors. Even if we assume one of them is without error, we have no way of knowing which one.

So Deacon, what is your manuscript evidence to support the above remarks? I assume you have studied all extant Greek and Hebrew manuscripts in existance and are thoroughly qualified to make that assertion? Have you seen the originals?

[Guest brandplucked]

Do you personally believe The Bible (any Bible in any language) IS NOW the inerrant and complete words of God?

God bless,

Will K

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However, I do enjoy this discussion because I am learning more and more about the NKJV and this I will be able to pass on to people.

That said, I do not believe there is an inerrant Bible in any language anywhere. I believe the original manuscripts were divinely inspired. This means that most of the manuscripts we have today are not inspired since they are not the originals. And, doesn't this make sense? How can one point to some obvious copyist errors in certain errors and say they are "inerrant?"

I do not think this position takes away from the authority of the Bible in any way. Nobody questions the accuracy or validity to Homer's Iliad. And, that has much, much, much less less traceability and manuscript evidence as the Bible. What's the difference then? The Bible demands action and change... that's what. Therefore, people will try to attack it.

But, to say that the KJV is the "inerrant Word of God" is incorrect. It was translated by fallible men. Thus, we have stories of the unicorn. We have inconsistent numerical accounts in the OT, and we have the inclusion of the Babylonian celebration of Ishtar (Easter) in the NT.

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[Guest brandplucked]

Brandplucked--

In your opinion is this a true statement?

"God's Word is preserved for us in the King James Bible and although not inspired as the original autographs were, they carry the authority of the original autographs. We can also refer to it as "imputed or derivative inspiration" since the King James Bible carries as much authority as the original manuscripts did. Let me repeat, the difference between preservation and inspiration is, inspiration was when God penned the original manuscripts through the holy men of old and preservation is the keeping of those manuscripts down through time. I hope this clears up the misconception of an "Inspired Translation." The King James Bible is a guided translation of the manuscripts handed down to us which had its birth in the original manuscripts which God gave with appended Divine authority"

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Hi PP, Yes, I would say I agree with this statement. I do not believe the KJB translators were inspired. Only God's words are inspired, and God has providentially guided and used the learned men behind the making of the King James Bible as His tools or vessels to accomplish His purpose in giving to the world His 100% pure and true words that will be here till heaven and earth pass away. There is no other Book like this Book.

Will K

[Guest brandplucked]

Brandplucked:

Is is possible that "the Holy Gost could mix up the tenses of may verbs when relating the same events that occured at the same time.

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Hi PP, excellent question, and one that most people would never think of asking. Not only is it possible that the Holy Ghost could use different tenses of verbs when relating the same events, but He in fact did this quite often. I think one of the reasons for doing so is to show us that "going to the Greek" is usually a waste of time and an exercise in futility. God is perfectly capable of giving us His pure words in a translation if He so chooses, and in fact, the only way for us to have a complete Bible (both testaments combined in a single Book) in any language necessitates that it be in a translated form. God just happened to pick English because He sees the end from the beginning and knew that English would develop into the final universal language of the last days.

Will K

[Guest brandplucked]

Pretzel,

Good deal!  Ya know, I've oft wondered why those who are so strictly KJV don't quote from the ORIGINAL KJV that is SOOOOO difficult to read!  Today's KJV is a revision of the original KJV for cyring out loud!

I've also wondered why those who are so strictly KJV don't emphasize reading Tyndale, Geneva, and other pre-KJV Bibles.  Are they not "inspired?"  Did we lose God's true words until 1611?

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Hi Ronald, first of all the original 1611 is not at all that hard to read. Have you ever seen it? The only major difference is that it was first printed in Gothic type rather than in Roman type. And regarding the Tyndale and Geneva Bibles, Tyndale died before he could complete the Old Testament, and his N.T. did have some minor textual errors in it. The Geneva was quite good, but not perfect or inerrant. I have a copy of it and have compared many, many verses with my King James Bible. I have found errors in it too, but it was far better than the nasb, niv, nkjv, esv, Holman etc.

It is your position that there is no inerrant Bible on this earth NOW, let alone back before 1611. In case you are interested, I have also addressed this commonly brought up complaint about "Where was the word of God before 1611".

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/before1611.html

Will K

[Gerioke]

The Wordof God is inerrant. The bible is only the vessel.

[Guest brandplucked]

Here is a good definition of verbal plenary inspiration.

Verbal Plenary Inspiration Defined

My bet is that Brandplucked will not agree with verbal plenary inspiration as this definition limits inspiration by the Holy Spirit to the writers of the original autographs.  Verbal plenary inspiration teachs that the individuals writing translations and making copies of the original autograph may be illuminated by the Holy Spirit, but they are not inspired by the Holy Spirit in this activity.

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Hi PP, I read the articles and you are right. I don't agree. If ONLY the "originals" WERE inspired and inerrant, then what this is really telling us is that God's promises to preserve His words were just hyperbole an exaggeration (a nice way of saying He was lying), and that there is no inerrant and inspired Bible on the earth today.

Here is some of what the Bible says about itself. These Scriptures are either true or they are not. If they are not true, then how can we think that all the other things that are found in the Bible are also not true?

The Bible believer first looks to God and His word to determine what the Book says about itself. The Bible cannot be clearer concerning it's preservation:

Isaiah 40:8: "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

Psalm 12:6-7: "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

Psalm 138:2: "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

Psalm 100:5: "For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."

Psalm 33:11: "The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations."

Psalm 119:152, 160: "Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that Thou hast founded them for ever. ... thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

Isaiah 59:21: "... My Spirit that is upon thee [isaiah], and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."

Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Matthew 24:35: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

John 10:35: "... the Scripture cannot be broken."

God has promised to preserve His wordS IN A BOOK here on this earth till heaven and earth pass away. He either did this and we can know where they are found today, or He lied and He lost some of them, and we can never be sure if what we are reading are the true words of God or not.

God's words are in a BOOK. Consider the following verses: "Now go, write it before them in a table, and NOTE IT IN A BOOK, that it may be for the time to come FOR EVER AND EVER." Isaiah 30:8

"Seek ye out of THE BOOK of the LORD, and READ: no one of these shall fail...for my mouth it hath commanded..." Isaiah 34:16

"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of THE BOOK it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." Psalm 40:7-8

"And if any man shall take away from THE WORDS OF THE BOOK of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK." Revelation 22:19

Will K