Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Revelation is the solution: Rev. 15:4- 

 

Generally this is when the Kingdom has arrived and Christ sits on the throne. There is an order to everything and the exact timing is elusive unless it's directly stated. 

Overall the authority would be established first after the enemies are defeated. 

Christ arrives, wins, sets up His rule with His people, and then the nations come to worship. 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The end of THIS AGE is not the same as the end of the NEXT AGE...it says the tares are burned at the end of THIS AGE...at the same time the wheat is judged. It cannot be that the END of this age is at the Second Coming and also be the END of the age 1000 years later...this is nonsense. 

 

Blessings to you- Gary

I don't disagree but ruling for 1000 years is what has been promised to His people, not Christ the King. His throne is forever. I see Satan imprisoned for 1000 years then loosed. I don't see in scripture an end of an age in relation to the millennium.  of 

What I do see is the continuous reign of Jesus into eternity from the time of His arrival. The end of this age is the end of the government of mankind over the earth. There is a paradigm shift from that to the rule of the Most High God forever. 

Sure it's a new age, but it's eternal. The sharing of power for 1000 years with His people isn't an age as the One who Rules rules forever.

[transmogrified]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Sure. How about this: "When this age is over."

Of course things would be different had he said 'So shall it be when this age is over,' but he said 'so shall it be at the end of this age.' 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I think this concept is valid.

The concept is not valid because that is not what was said.  

God tells Moses:

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And thou shalt couple five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves, and shalt double the sixth curtain in the forefront of the tabernacle.

And Moses says "Sure, How about this? Couple 17 curtains by themselves  and 8 curtains by themselves, and double the 8th curtain in the forefront of the tabernacle...I think this is a valid concept...'

No. God said to Moses:

Quote

See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

 

The resurrection of the dead is a foundational principle in the scripture...The foundation is 

1) Apostles...

2) Prophets..

3) Jesus being the chief corner stone

Jesus said the tares would be gathered and burned at the end of this age...not 'when this age is over.' 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's not possible to do it all on the 1st day when Jesus returns.

Jesus said 'the tares would be gathered and burned at the end of this age, so its not only possible, its inevitable. 

 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Even if it was possible it doesn't have all happen at once. 

Both the wheat and the tares are harvested at the same time, so it has to all happen at once. It is specified exactly when the harvest is...it is at the end of this age....so it's impossible for it to be at any other time...If he wanted to say the tares would be gathered and burned at the end of the next age, he would not have said the tares would be gathered and burned at the end of this age. 

A previous quote:

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There's no collision. 

It's a matter of 'When?' The scripture isn't exactly clear on that point.

 

The claim is that the scripture isn't exactly clear on that point, but the scripture is clear on this point. It specifically tells us when the tares will be gathered and burned in the fire. 

A previous quote:

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I get that. What I can't do is ignore Rev 2o:4 and Rev 7:13-14.

The great multitude is explained to be the living nations who repent at the second Coming..no one has to ignore Rev. 7:13-14 to say the wicked are resurrected at the Second Coming.

The is also an explanation for who the rest of the dead are in Rev. 20:4 so this does not have to be ignored in order to say the wicked are resurrected at the Second Coming.

A previous quote:

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When we see the resurrected in Revelation the only mention of those so resurrected before the 1000 years are those who came out of GT,

The great multitude are not resurrected..they are the living nations who repent at the second coming, so Rev. 7:13-14 has nothing to do with who is resurrected.

A previous quote:

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It seems quite impossible for there to be a general resurrection at the point of Rev 20:4-6 if the 2nd death has no power over those who share in the first resurrection.

 It was never put forth by me or scripture that the wicked dead take part in the first resurrection. Both sheep and goats are resurrected and appear before Jesus at his coming...in order for them to both be there at the same time, both groups had to be resurrected...just like the net analogy...the net is lowered and gathers fish of every kind...(the resurrection of the good and the bad) and then it is drawn to the shore and the good are kept (the sheep) and the bad are cast away (the goats). 

The impossible part is that both sheep and goats are resurrected, judged and rewarded at the Second Coming, and then to also say the goats are not resurrected, judged or rewarded until 1000 years after Jesus comes. 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't disagree but ruling for 1000 years is what has been promised to His people, not Christ the King. His throne is forever.

This has nothing to do with when the wicked are resurrected.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

The end of this age is the end of the government of mankind over the earth.

It is just as much scriptural to say the end of this age is the end of the government of mankind over the earth as it is to say 'the tares will be gathered and burned at this same end of the age.' Both scriptures are given by the same inspiration of the Holy Spirit and are equally valid and cannot be disregarded. 

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Sure it's a new age, but it's eternal. The sharing of power for 1000 years with His people isn't an age as the One who Rules rules forever.

The above quote has nothing to do with the resurrection of the wicked happening at the Second Coming. 

Blessings to you- Gary

[transmogrified]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The harvest is when people are moved out of His Kingdom and into the Kingdom of their Father.

The harvest is the end of this age. It is a point in time when the righteous and the wicked will be rewarded. In order for them to be judged and rewarded, they must first be resurrected. 

 

When it says the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, a resurrection had to occur before this took place. If they are both gathered and burned in the fire at the end of this age, and the wheat are also gathered into the barn at this same time, then the time when the tares are resurrected, judged and rewarded would be at the same time the wheat is resurrected, which of course is at the Second Coming. 

The end of this age cannot be both at the Second Coming and also at the end of the 1000 years.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The harvest is when people are moved out of His Kingdom and into the Kingdom of their Father.

It is said the harvest is WHEN people are moved out of his kingdom into the kingdom of their Father...When does this happen? This happens  at the Second Coming when the both the sheep and goats are before the Lord...he says to those on his right hand...'Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.'

At this point they sheep enter into the 1000 year reign on the earth with Christ. 

What I am getting at is that the goats are present before the Lord at the same time the sheep are...How did they get there? They got there the same way the sheep got there...they were resurrected. The goats being there at the same time the sheep were there means the idea that the wicked dead will not be resurrected until the 1000 years is finished is false...They can't both be before the Lord at the same time the sheep are, and also not be resurrected yet,  in the same way the sheep could not be there if they had not been first resurrected.

Blessings to you - Gary

[Uriah]

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

How does one "rest" without the ability to "rest?" No

Believe the scriptures.

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

they will be their new bodies back from the dead 

But where does it say that?

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

There's no reason why Yeshua` can't raise people to life any time He feels like

But He says when He will.

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

There will be resurrections throughout His Second Advent, just as He did during His First Advent

Some of these things seem like fighting against God, His word. You haven't shown scriptures that say what you say.

 

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

As I said before, Yeshua` NEVER said that they would happen AT THE SAME TIME

Re-read John 5, and Rev 11 that I posted. Believe them. 

Sorry but I cannot help you any further than what the scriptures say.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Believe the scriptures.

Shalom, Uriah.

I already do!

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

But where does it say that?

It says it in the word "psuchas" and in the clues that are present in this scene! When the seal is broken, these "air-breathing" people cry out WITH A LOUD VOICE, asking,

Revelation 6:10b (KJV)

10 ... "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

And, they were given white robes to wear. (Kinda hard to do without bodies to support them.) 

"Psuchas" in Greek is the accusative plural of "psuchee," a word that is used exactly like "nefesh" is used in Hebrew. They both mean "an air-breathing creature." That's kinda hard to do without a living body to breathe air!

Having good definitions for the words that were used in the Scriptures makes everything a WHOLE LOT easier to understand. When you know what "psuchee" means in the NT - when you know what "nefesh" means in the OT, you suddenly don't have to ask so many questions - STRANGE questions - like, "Are these souls living or dead?!"

It's like the word "ouranos" meaning the "sky," as Yeshua` used the word in Matthew 16:1-4. If you KNOW that the word "ouranos" means the "sky," you don't have to ask STRANGE questions like, "Were the disciples looking into another dimension at the ascension of our Lord?" or "Were they actually looking into the realm where God lives?" or some other such foolish notion, like "Could they see the streets of gold?" They were gazing into the SKY, watching Him disappear behind a cloud! They were gazing so intently, that they had to be tapped on the shoulder and asked, "Why are you just gazing into the sky?" by the two men dressed in white.

 

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

But He says when He will.

Sometimes, yes; sometimes, no! He announced to His disciples that Eleazar ("Lazarus") was dead and that He was going there to awaken Him, but sometimes, a group of pallbearers is carrying a casket with the only son of a widow in it, and He just stops the funeral procession!

Yeshua` said,

John 5:19-30 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

That all seems pretty clear to me! During His First Advent, He offered the Kingdom to the Jews, the children of Yhudah ("Judah"), and they SHOULD have accepted Him as God's Messiah to be King - God's ANOINTED to be King!

When He commissioned His disciples to go throughout Israel from town to town, we read:

Matthew 10:5-15 (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles (non-children of Israel), and into any city of the Samaritans (the half-breeds of the 10 Northern tribes) enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying,

"'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city!"

They should have accepted Him as YHWH God's MASHIYACH - God's ANOINTED to be the King of Israel!

But, they did not because of the political aspirations of the leadership and their fear of the Romans.

That was "okay" in a sense, because His ultimate mission was to come as "haKeves Elohiym" or "the Lamb of God." He had to die first for the sins of many and be raised from the dead.

Now, when He returns, His SECOND Coming or Advent will be a little different! He comes as "Haa'aryeeh lmaTTeeh Yhuwdaah" "THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF YHUDAH!" Under the inspiration of YHWH God, Ya`aqoV ("Jacob") blessed Yhudah:

Genesis 49:9-12 (KJV)

9 "Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk."

 

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Some of these things seem like fighting against God, His word. You haven't shown scriptures that say what you say.

I'm not fighting against anyone, especially not God nor His Word! I've shown Scripture that says what I've said; one just needs to be able to read it!

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Re-read John 5, and Rev 11 that I posted. Believe them. 

Sorry but I cannot help you any further than what the scriptures say.

Revelation 11 is merely a prophecy of the fulfillment of Yeshua`s words in the Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 25:31-33ff (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. ..."

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The harvest is the end of this age. It is a point in time when the righteous and the wicked will be rewarded. In order for them to be judged and rewarded, they must first be resurrected. 

When it says the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, a resurrection had to occur before this took place. If they are both gathered and burned in the fire at the end of this age, and the wheat are also gathered into the barn at this same time, then the time when the tares are resurrected, judged and rewarded would be at the same time the wheat is resurrected, which of course is at the Second Coming. 

Nope. Follow the logic a bit more carefully: Yes, the harvest is the end of this age. It is a point in time when the wicked will be rewarded, but the righteous have already BEEN rewarded. See, their resurrection (if they weren't still living) happened at the Second Coming which PRECEDED the Millennium. The first 1,000 years of the Reign of the Messiah will be when Yeshua WANTS His righteous present! At the end of the 1,000 years of the Reign of the Messiah, there will be no need for the justified to be resurrected! They were ALREADY LIVING with the Messiah for 1,000 years! The only "reward" for them will be to "move into God the Father's barn," the New Earth, the New Sky, and the New Jerusalem. (The New Jerusalem has already been likened to a "tent" and now it's being compared to a "barn!" Good grief!)

The Great White Throne Judgment, where the wicked will be "rewarded," is AFTER the 1,000 years! (Rev. 20:7-15).

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The end of this age cannot be both at the Second Coming and also at the end of the 1000 years.

It's not.

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

It is said the harvest is WHEN people are moved out of his kingdom into the kingdom of their Father...When does this happen?

This happens at the end of this age! They've BEEN in the Kingdom of the Messiah, the SON of God, for a thousand years, and at the end of the age, they will be moved into the Kingdom of God the FATHER! But, NO RESURRECTION NECESSARY!

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

This happens  at the Second Coming when the both the sheep and goats are before the Lord...he says to those on his right hand...'Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.'

At this point they sheep enter into the 1000 year reign on the earth with Christ. 

Yes. This "judgment" on the NATIONS of the world is a WAR TRIBUNAL against the nations who MISTREATED His people, both children of Israel and believers, but at this judgment, they are NOT THROWN into the Fire, YET! They are just told to LEAVE! Yeshua` is separating the nations and annexing some of them right away into His Kingdom Empire.

The NATIONS who are enemies of the Messiah and His people are only DESTINED for that judgment at the end of the age! IF the individual people remain in their nations, they WILL be resurrected at the end of the age and stand trial at the Great White Throne Judgment. BUT, they don't have to stay in their doomed nations! This WAR TRIBUNAL DOES happen at the beginning of His Kingdom, the beginning of the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's reign, but a lot can happen in a THOUSAND years!

Remember what Peter said,

2 Peter 3:7-9 (KJV)

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment (The Great White Throne Judgment) and perdition (condemnation) of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a THOUSAND YEARS, and a THOUSAND YEARS as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack (lazy) concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So, individuals are given the chance to abandon their nation's choice against YHWH God and His Messiah and their people, while within their lifetimes. If they should die before they make a choice to "kiss the Son," then they will be resurrected at the end of the age and stand trial at the GWTJ.

 

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

What I am getting at is that the goats are present before the Lord at the same time the sheep are...How did they get there? They got there the same way the sheep got there...they were resurrected.

Nope. They were the nations that SURVIVED the seals, trumpets, and vials, and were nations that participated in the War for Israel! They weren't resurrected to get there. If any of them died during the War, they will remain in the ground until they are resurrected at the end of the age for the GWTJ.

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The goats being there at the same time the sheep were there means the idea that the wicked dead will not be resurrected until the 1000 years is finished is false...They can't both be before the Lord at the same time the sheep are, and also not be resurrected yet,  in the same way the sheep could not be there if they had not been first resurrected.

Blessings to you - Gary

This is just a faulty conclusion. While you are right about the sheep nations to some extent, the goat nations are from which the "tares" - the "children of the wicked one" - come to enter into His Kingdom illegitimately!

Actually, even the sheep nations are not necessarily the ones justified by God that are resurrected at the Second Coming. Most of these "sheep nations" were just nations who HELPED the children of Israel and the believers! Being "FRIENDS of Israel" (and believers or "Christians"), they are not necessarily believers themselves ... YET! They just treated the Messiah's brothers (and sisters) well, thereby treating HIM well!

As such, they are annexed into His Empire, and are therefore among the FIRST to be introduced to the Messiah and what He has done for the world in dying for them on the cross.

I hope this has been clear to you. We've got a WONDERFUL future yet ahead! We still have MUCH to do for that 1,000 years, and then we get to see the New Jerusalem land and be a part of that city and the wonderful New Earth and Sky that will be better than anything we've ever known!

Edited May 18, 2022 by Retrobyter
hopefully to make things just a little clearer

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

And, they were given white robes to wear. (Kinda hard to do without bodies to support them.) 

I don't think so, angels are seen wearing white robes too. As far as I know, they have no body.

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Uriah said:

I don't think so, angels are seen wearing white robes too. As far as I know, they have no body.

Shalom, Uriah.

All the word "angel," a transliteration of the Greek word "aggelos," means is "messenger." If you study it out, I think you will find that MOST "messengers" in the Bible are of the HUMAN variety. Furthermore, many of the human "messengers of God" are PROPHETS!

[transmogrified]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope. Follow the logic a bit more carefully: Yes, the harvest is the end of this age. It is a point in time when the wicked will be rewarded, but the righteous have already BEEN rewarded. See, their resurrection (if they weren't still living) happened at the Second Coming which PRECEDED the Millennium.

First look at this quote:

 

Quote

It is a point in time when the wicked will be rewarded, but the righteous have already BEEN rewarded.

The above quote changes the narrative from 'let both grow together UNTIL the harvest,' to 'let the wheat be harvested BEFORE the harvest.' This is known because the first part of the quote establishes when the harvest is...it is said to the end of this age. But then it is stated that the wheat have already been rewarded BEFORE this point in time. But the scripture does not say the wheat is harvested before the wicked, but rather they both grow together UNTIL the harvest. 

 Compare the next two quotes to see another  contradiction:

Quote #1:

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Yes, the harvest is the end of this age. It is a point in time when the wicked will be rewarded,

Quote #2:

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The Great White Throne Judgment, where the wicked will be "rewarded," is AFTER the 1,000 years! (Rev. 20:7-15).

Quote #1  says the harvest is THE END of this age, WHEN the wicked will be REWARDED

Quote #2 says the wicked will be rewarded AFTER the 1000 years. 

One quote is saying the wicked will be rewarded at the END of the 1000 years, the next quote says the wicked will be rewarded AFTER the 1000 years. So the question is, are the wicked dead rewarded at the END of the 1000 years or AFTER the 1000 years? What is going on?

Look at this verse:

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And cast him (the devil) into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that (after the 1000 years) he must be loosed a little season.

So everything is going along as normal throughout the entire 1000 year span...the devil is bound and he is not deceiving the nations throughout the entire 1000 year period...in other words the full 1000 years time period has expired, or has been completed. It then states that AFTER the 1000 years are finished, or completed, the devil is loosed for a little season:

Quote

and after that (after the 1000 years) he must be loosed a little season.

 Is then the Great White Throne judgment at the END of the 1000 years or is it AFTER the 1000 years have expired? If it happens on this side of the 1000 years it would  be called the 'end of this age,' or 'the end of the 1000 years,' but if it happens on the other side of the 1000 years then it would be called AFTER the 1000 years are finished, and not 'the end of the age.' These might be considered trivial, but the scripture plainly states that when the entire 1000 year period is finished, or expired, or has been completed, that AFTER this period of time Satan is loosed out of his prison.

So step back and see what is going on..the devil is bound for the entire 1000 year period, and has not been deceiving the nations throughout the whole time. So when the 1000 year period comes to its close and the clock ticks past the 1000 year point in time something happens. Step back again. Did the Great White Throne happen at any point during the 1000 year period? No, it has not take place yet..nothing had transpired at all UNTIL Satan was loosed out of his prison AFTER this period of time had elapsed.

What does that mean? It means there was no resurrection of the wicked BEFORE the 1000 years was finished. This is how it is worded:

'But the rest of the dead did not live again UNTIL the thousand years was FINISHED.' This cannot be construed to mean 'But the rest of the dead lived again BEFORE the 1000 years was finished.' No. It says they DID NOT live again UNTIL the 1000 years was finished, or completed.

If they did not live again UNTIL the 1000 years was finished, then there also was no Great White Throne judgment before the 1000 years was finished. This means the Great White Throne did not take place 'at the END of this age' as alleged, but rather took place AFTER the 1000 years was finished.

Satan was loosed after the thousand years and went out to deceive the nations. It was after the thousand years that God destroyed Gog and Magog...it was AT THIS POINT that John saw a Great White Throne...

Rev. 20:7 says

Quote

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison..."

So we can see that the devil is not loosed out of his prison UNTIL the 1000 years are expired, or completed...to emphasize this point in time it says he is loosed for a little season AFTER the thousand years are finished as it says here:

Quote

...that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

What I am getting at is that the phrase in Matthew 13 where it uses the phrase two times saying the 'the end of the age', or 'the end of this age,' cannot be construed to mean the end of the 1000 years as alleged, because the Great White Throne does not take place at the end of this age, but rather takes place AFTER the 1000 years are finished.

Below is a summary of the events that transpire AFTER the 1000 years are finished:

Rev. 20:7 - After the thousand years are expired, Satan is loosed out of his prison...(we are now in the time frame on the other side of the 1000 years) 

Rev. 20:8 - He goes out to deceive the nations...gathers Gog and Magog against the saints... (still on the other side of the 1000 years) 

Rev. 20:9- They compass the city and fire comes down out of heaven and destroys them...

Rev. 20:10 - Devil is cast into the lake of fire.. (still on the other side of the 1000 years) 

Rev. 20:11- John sees a Great White Throne..heaven and earth flees away (still on the other side of the 1000 years) 

Rev. 20:12 -The dead are resurrected and judged..(on the other side of the 1000 years) 

Rev. 20:13 - More detail on the resurrection...the sea gives up the dead...death and hell give up the dead and they are judged

Rev. 20:14  - Death and hell are cast in the lake of fire...

Rev. 20:15 - Whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire..

You can see from the above events that are described to take place AFTER the 1000 years that the resurrection,  judgement and rewards of the dead take place on the other side of the 1000 years and not at the end of the 1000 years. .

What this shows is that the end of THIS age as spoken of in Matthew, when the tares are cast into the fire can not be referring to the Great White Throne for the Great White Throne does not happen at the end of this age, but rather  on the other side of the 1000 years. For the premise to be true that the tares in Matthew 13 are not resurrected until the Great White Throne judgment, the wording in Matthew 13 would have to be changed from this:

Quote

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

To this:

Quote

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be AFTER the thousand years are expired.

From this: 

1) In the end of this age...

To this:

2) After the thousand years are finished...

We could look up original Greek or any translation available and it does not say that:

NIV - so it will be at the end of the age.

ESV - so will it be at the end of the age.

Berean - so will it be in the consummation of the age.

Literal Standard - so will it be in the full end of this age also getting at is that the end of this age,

Literal Emphasis - thus it will be in the culmination of the age.

Mace - at the conclusion of the age.

Weymouth - so will it be at the Close of the Age.

What is the problem here? The word 'IN' in the phrase 'in the end of this age,' does not  mean 'AFTER'

Satan can not be loosed AFTER the 1000 years are finished and also be loosed BEFORE the 1000 years are finished. 

There is no definition in Websters in which the word 'in' is defined as 'after.' They are two completely different words with two completely different meanings.

Here is how Strongs #1722 for the word 'in' is defined:

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1722 en (a preposition) – properly, in (inside, within); (figuratively) "in the realm (sphere) of," as in the condition (state) in which something operates from the inside (within).

Here is how Strongs #3326 for the word 'after' is defined:

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3326 metá (a preposition) – properly, with ("after with"), implying "change afterward" (i.e. what results after the activity). As an active "with," 3326 (metá) looks towards the after-effect (change, result) which is only defined by the context.

The solution is to accept the wording as it states in Matthew 13. The tares are resurrected IN the end of THIS age, and not AFTER the 1000 years are finished.

This also places the end of this age in its proper place which is at the Second Coming, at which time both the wheat and the tares are resurrected, judged and rewarded.

The premise that the tares are resurrected at the end of this age cannot be true, as long as the end of this age is construed to mean at the end of the 1000 years, for there is no resurrection at the end of the 1000 years...

There is no problem with the wording of Matthew 13 if the resurrection of the wheat and the tares occurs at the Second Coming. Why? 

Because the resurrection of the saints happens on 'The Last Day.' What does this mean? It means it happens on the last day of this age. The resurrection of the righteous is never stated to take place AFTER the last day, but ON the last day. This is the true point in time that it is called 'the end of this age.'

The Second Coming is the true dividing line between this age that we are in now and the age which is to come, rather than at the end of the 1000 years.

This is how Caiphas can see Jesus coming in the clouds. If Caiphas is not resurrected until the after the thousand years are finished, he would not see Jesus coming in the clouds, for Jesus had already came approximately 1000 years before this. 

Blessings to you- Gary 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by transmogrified