Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[BobRyan]

 

Post trib - "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" -- Matthew 24

 

So we HAVE the text for post-trib. Not for any others

On 6/13/2017 at 10:29 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Bob,

Again we realise that God also calls Israel His elect.

` For Jacob my servant`s sake, and Israel my ELECT.` (Isa. 45: 4)

So as the Body of Christ revelation was NOT given in the time of the `gospels` the elect` obviously refers to Israel, to whom the Lord was speaking.

Marilyn.

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

"He is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY and circumcision is of the heart" Romans 2

Romans 11 - the two groups are united as one.

¹⁹ You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” ²⁰ Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; ²¹ for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. ²² Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. ²³ And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ²⁴ For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Acts 13

⁴⁴ The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. ⁴⁵ But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. ⁴⁶ Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

 

God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Peter 3) that includes Jews as well as gentiles.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Ah! Like a breath of fresh air - some common sense on the "elect."  I could not have said it better. It seems so many will not believe Daniel: that the 70th week is for HIS people.

Hi iamlamad,

Thanks for encouragement, I really appreciate it. This last truth to be clarified - the end-times & eternal purposes, can bring out very strange views. It was good to see you helping Bob to look up scripture and learn to interpret correctly. Even if he doesn`t learn then I`m sure others reading will take notice and grow in understanding.

regards, Marilyn. 

[BobRyan]

 

Post trib - "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" -- Matthew 24

 

So we HAVE the text for post-trib. Not for any others

On 6/13/2017 at 10:29 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Bob,

Again we realise that God also calls Israel His elect.

` For Jacob my servant`s sake, and Israel my ELECT.` (Isa. 45: 4)

So as the Body of Christ revelation was NOT given in the time of the `gospels` the elect` obviously refers to Israel, to whom the Lord was speaking.

Marilyn.

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

"He is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY and circumcision is of the heart" Romans 2

Romans 11 - the two groups are united as one.

¹⁹ You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” ²⁰ Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; ²¹ for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. ²² Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. ²³ And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ²⁴ For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Acts 13

⁴⁴ The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. ⁴⁵ But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. ⁴⁶ Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

 

God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Peter 3) that includes Jews as well as gentiles.

 

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

Thanks for encouragement, I really appreciate it. This last truth to be clarified - the end-times & eternal purposes, can bring out very strange views. It was good to see you helping Bob to look up scripture

 

I too am grateful for  people willing to look up scripture and believe what it says no matter their preferences and traditions to the contrary.

Eph 2

¹¹ Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— ¹² remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. ¹³ But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. ¹⁴ For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, ¹⁵ by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, ¹⁶ and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. ¹⁷ And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; ¹⁸ for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. ¹⁹ So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, ²⁰ having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, ²¹ in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, ²² in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

"Give me the Bible - AND the words IN the Bible" (Many people "have" Bibles - but how many read and so then have the words IN the Bible?)

 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎15‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 10:34 PM, BobRyan said:

 

"He is not a Jew who is one OUTWARDLY but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY and circumcision is of the heart" Romans 2

Romans 11 - the two groups are united as one.

¹⁹ You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” ²⁰ Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; ²¹ for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. ²² Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. ²³ And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ²⁴ For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

Hi BobRyan,

If you would look carefully at Romans 1 & 2 you will see that it is like a court case and the Apostle Paul is presenting the Gentile and the Jew case - there is none righteous. Paul was not saying that the Body of Christ is now Israel or that believers are now Jews.

As to Romans 11 you will note that the two group are grafted in to the Olive tree - which is Christ. Two separate groups under Christ`s authority for His purposes.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, BobRyan said:

 

Eph 2

¹¹ Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— ¹² remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. ¹³ But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. ¹⁴ For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, ¹⁵ by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, ¹⁶ and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. ¹⁷ And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; ¹⁸ for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. ¹⁹ So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, ²⁰ having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, ²¹ in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, ²² in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

"Give me the Bible - AND the words IN the Bible" (Many people "have" Bibles - but how many read and so then have the words IN the Bible?)

 

Hi BobRyan,

We see here the revelation that was given to the Apostle Paul, concerning the Body of Christ. They are a different group than Israel or the nations.

regards, Marilyn.

[Riccardo]

Are we, the gentiles, apart of the new covenant or not?

God only ever made his covenant with Jew

I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel & the house of Judah. Jer 31:31.

[BobRyan]

On 6/16/2017 at 8:10 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi BobRyan,

We see here the revelation that was given to the Apostle Paul, concerning the Body of Christ. They are a different group than Israel or the nations.

regards, Marilyn.

"The two groups into One"

"God so loved the WORLD that He gave"  -- not "just the Jews"

"The New Covenant" with the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" applies to ALL of us - not "Just physical Jews" as Riccardo pointed out.
 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, BobRyan said:

"The two groups into One"

"God so loved the WORLD that He gave"  -- not "just the Jews"

"The New Covenant" with the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" applies to ALL of us - not "Just physical Jews" as Riccardo pointed out.
 

 

 

Hi BobRyan,

The New Covenant is Christ Himself and He has different inheritances for the different groups. We read of the nations walking in the light of the New Jerusalem. We read of Israel ruling over those nations and finally we read of the Body of Christ, the `new man` who are made like Christ with glorified bodies that can live in the realms above, and rule with Christ over all.

Each group receiving eternal life, but just the different areas they will live in as God has appointed.

Marilyn.

[BobRyan]

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi BobRyan,

The New Covenant is Christ Himself and He has different inheritances for the different groups.

No text says "The new Covenant is Christ Himself" read Jeremiah 31:31-33 for the actual text of the New Covenant.

No text says that God has 'different inheritances for the different groups under the New Covenant" - I think we all would agree to that. You are "quoting you" well enough but not quoting the Bible.

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

We read of the nations walking in the light of the New Jerusalem. We read of Israel ruling over those nations

Romans 9 says it is 'Not as though the promises have failed" in reference to the fact that Israel had fallen in true Romans 11 fashion - but that those promises applied to the spiritual Jews of Romans 2 so that we see in Rev 21 that each of the gates of the New Jerusalem - the Holy city, the City of God - has the name of one of the tribes of Israel on it. We all will enter into one of those gates.

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

 

and finally we read of the Body of Christ, the `new man` who are made like Christ with glorified bodies that can live in the realms above, and rule with Christ over all.

Each group receiving eternal life, but just the different areas they will live in as God has appointed.

Marilyn.

No texts say that the saved/elect Jews will not be raptured and taken to heaven at the rapture and 2nd coming of Matt 24 just like all the other saints, all the "elect" of God

[Marilyn C]

31 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

No text says "The new Covenant is Christ Himself" read Jeremiah 31:31-33 for the actual text of the New Covenant.

No text says that God has 'different inheritances for the different groups under the New Covenant" - I think we all would agree to that. You are "quoting you" well enough but not quoting the Bible.

 

Hi Bob,

So how is God going to put His law in their minds and write it on their heart,` (Jer. 31: 33) of course only through Christ.

God`s word clearly tells us that Israel will rule over the nations of the earth. (Isa. 66: 18 - 21,  Zech. 14: 16 - 21)

So therefore the nations are not ruling but coming under Israel. Two differences there, bro.

And finally the Body of Christ, kings and priests will be with Christ on His throne, seat of power and authority in the third heaven. Kingpriests is a special office and only for the third heaven. The other realms have the kings and priests as separate offices. (Rev. 3: 21)

Quite distinct inheritances there, bro.

Marilyn.