Waggles Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 9/8/2021 at 7:55 AM, pinacled said: caesarea was west of galiee which is likely too far to travel from or to mount hermon in 6 days. The nearest possible mount was likely arbel which is near the area they went to visit the multitudes. Sorry cannot agree - Mount Hermon and its association with the gates to the underworld make much more sense for Jesus to reveal himself over and above those under the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 10 hours ago, appy said: Enoch 40:9 The second is he who presides over every suffering and every affliction of the sons of men, the holy Raphael. The third, who presides over all that is powerful, is Gabriel. And the fourth, who presides over repentance, and the hope of those who will inherit eternal life, is Phanuel This is descriptive about angels who have duties given to them by God. The sentence concerning Phanuel does not state that that angel is the author and giver of repentance and salvation, but rather he presides over those who have done so. Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents. Hebrews 1:14 Are they [angels] not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? Daniel 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly2363 Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 579 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 303 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Waggles said: This is descriptive about angels who have duties given to them by God. The sentence concerning Phanuel does not state that that angel is the author and giver of repentance and salvation, but rather he presides over those who have done so. Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents. Hebrews 1:14 Are they [angels] not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? Daniel 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said, “Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace, According to Your word; For my eyes have seen Your salvation. And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed— and a sword will pierce even your own soul—to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.” And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years and had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, and then as a widow to the age of eighty-four. She never left the temple, serving night and day with fastings and prayers. At that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem. Can we in anywise say that there is appointed in heaven an angel by the name of Phanuel who is given to preside over those prophet voices that declared in the Temple that they had seen with their own eyes the Salvation of the Lord as Christ was borne up in the arms of the prophet Simeon which was by the power of the Holy Spirit? Do the angels now direct the Holy Spirit? And what of the sending of the Holy Spirit by the Father at pentecost? Is He now also in that meaning - being sent to convict men of sin, of righteousness and of judgement? If we can then we are saying that Phanuel directs the Father, the revealing of Christ, the giving of the Holy Spirit and the conviction of sin, of righteousness and of judgement. In that meaning the claim is a blasphemy. And seeing that you can - by the heretical teachings of Heiser who has butchered doctrines of truth in his Divine Council teaching - then it is not difficult to understand why some brethren refuse his teaching utterly. Edited September 9, 2021 by Kelly2363 Clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 10 hours ago, Hopefully said: My internet wasn’t to persuade anyone to believe anything but to have a discussion about it from likeminded people who do believe it. Many Christians believe the first book of Enoch many do not. I feel like as long as I believe in Jesus it’s okay to believe anything else too because no other belief supersedes Jesus. Everything else must agree with him to be true. The same thoughts were alive and well with the first century church fathers. Some thought it was inspired and should be in the cannon, others thought it was just good knowledge to have and some thought it not true and should not even be read.... and here we are two thousand or so years later and nothing new under the sun. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 There is a long and complex story alluded to in the Tanakh and later writings. It is about Chaos vs God. Well not exactly since God allowed chaos to rule in a diminished capacity in His amazing Way to highlight and unseat the rebellions of His many supernatural creations that thought they could control the outcome. Ezekiel's many words from the Lord give us an inkling of this battle. So do other verses and writings scattered thru History. Chaos vs Eden. If we read very closely how this battle rages and how mankind is intertwined with it all we might see the wonderful Tapestry God calls 'HIS-tory'. God vs the various pantheons that He set up to try and to test His people. It is a long and varied series of skirmishes. The lord High God always has the upper hand and there was not a man that could be found to bring in the finale the He wanted. The Lord High God became a man so that this could be accomplished the way He had designed it from the very beginnings. Various texts and writings give us many clues about this and must be read closely in order to get the full picture. Eden wins in the end and we are His favored guests as brothers and sisters and co-rulers with Him. It is a wonderfully complex story that includes us humans and the loyal members of His Created Heavenly Forces. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Hopefully said: Thank you. I hadn’t considered a full study of Enoch for myself. I know the Bible speaks of fallen angels but does not give details about their interactions with people other than mating with women. To read they also introduced some forbidden knowledge didn’t seem far off to me. Even the "mating with women" part is uncertain. There are two main interpretations of "sons of God", in the context to which you allude. There is the one you mentioned; and the other is that "sons of God" refers to the godly line of Seth ("sons of God" can refer to angels but I cannot recall it ever clearly referring to fallen angels; it can also refer to godly men, in the OT). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, David1701 said: Even the "mating with women" part is uncertain. There are two main interpretations of "sons of God", in the context to which you allude. There is the one you mentioned; and the other is that "sons of God" refers to the godly line of Seth ("sons of God" can refer to angels but I cannot recall it ever clearly referring to fallen angels; it can also refer to godly men, in the OT). The 'sons of Seth' is an Augustinian thing. He hated enoch from his mannecean days. Check out psalm 89. "For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, 7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones," 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, David1701 said: There are two main interpretations of "sons of God", Yes this is true. I have witnessed many “sons of God” discussions. They come from here: “The number of people on earth continued to increase. When these people had daughters, the sons of God saw how beautiful they were. So they chose the women they wanted. They married them, and the women had their children. Then the Lord said, “People are only human. I will not let my Spirit be troubled by them forever. I will let them live only 120 years.” During this time and also later, the Nephilim people lived in the land. They have been famous as powerful soldiers since ancient times.” Genesis 6:1-4 ERV “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” Genesis 6:1-4 KJV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Justin Adams said: The 'sons of Seth' is an Augustinian thing. He hated enoch from his mannecean days. Check out psalm 89. "For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, 7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones," The interpretation of Psalm 89:6,7 is also debated. Ps. 89:6,7 (Webster) 6 For who in the heaven can be compared to the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened to the LORD? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence by all them that are about him. Does the latter part of verse 6 and verse 7 refer to angels, or men? It could be interpreted either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted September 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2021 58 minutes ago, Hopefully said: Yes this is true. I have witnessed many “sons of God” discussions. They come from here: “The number of people on earth continued to increase. When these people had daughters, the sons of God saw how beautiful they were. So they chose the women they wanted. They married them, and the women had their children. Then the Lord said, “People are only human. I will not let my Spirit be troubled by them forever. I will let them live only 120 years.” During this time and also later, the Nephilim people lived in the land. They have been famous as powerful soldiers since ancient times.” Genesis 6:1-4 ERV “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” Genesis 6:1-4 KJV Yes, I knew which passage you referred to. It's hard to tell whether it refers to fallen angels, or godly men who went astray. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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